Australian Politics Forum - What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #465 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:52pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

They come about when differing religions (or sports fans, or ideologies, or anything really) meet....which makes me question the *ahem* "wisdom" of multiculturalism.

Diversity is a recipe for conflict, guaranteed.

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Soren

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #466 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:06pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

When was the last Christian religious war that you are aware of?

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Bobby.

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #467 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:23pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

True Pansi - more wars caused by religion than anything else.
Also - more halfwits in the world who believe in fairy tales.

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #468 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:29pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

True Pansi - more wars caused by religion than anything else.
Also - more halfwits in the world who believe in fairy tales.

Don't you guys ever even consider checking these bogus catchphrases before repeating them ad nauseum?

Quote:

In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-alan-lurie/is-religion-the-cause-of-_b_14007...

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aquascoot

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #469 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:34pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

compared to war, all other forms of human endeavour pale into insignificance.

rachel kohn , soren, now she is a top bird, but you will definitely need to sit in the lotus position to listen to her Wink

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #470 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:41pm

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

When was the last Christian religious war that you are aware of?

And all religions act like that, you agreed with the author you are quoting.

She said religion is a pacifier.

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Bobby.

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #471 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:55pm

... wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

True Pansi - more wars caused by religion than anything else.
Also - more halfwits in the world who believe in fairy tales.

Don't you guys ever even consider checking these bogus catchphrases before repeating them ad nauseum?

Quote:

In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-alan-lurie/is-religion-the-cause-of-_b_14007...

3,000 in the Inquisition ? - and the rest - try millions of people.

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Soren

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #472 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:00pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:41pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

The never ending list of religious wars

When was the last Christian religious war that you are aware of?

And all religions act like that, you agreed with the author you are quoting.

She said religion is a pacifier.

Note the utter unconnectedness of my question and your answer.

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« Last Edit: Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:08pm by Soren »

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #473 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

3,000 in the Inquisition ? - and the rest - try millions of people.

From the link:

Quote:

While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

....

Similarly, the vast numbers of genocides (those killed in ethic cleanses, purges, etc. that are not connected to a declared war) are not based on religion. It's estimated that over 160 million civilians were killed in genocides in the 20th century alone, with nearly 100 million killed by the Communist states of USSR and China. While some claim that Communism itself is a "state religion" -- because it has an absolute dictator whose word is law and a "holy book" of unchallenged rules -- such a claim simply equates "religion" with the human desire for power, conformance, and control, making any distinctions with other human institutions meaningless.

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Bobby.

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #474 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:27pm

... wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

3,000 in the Inquisition ? - and the rest - try millions of people.

From the link:

Quote:

While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

....

Similarly, the vast numbers of genocides (those killed in ethic cleanses, purges, etc. that are not connected to a declared war) are not based on religion. It's estimated that over 160 million civilians were killed in genocides in the 20th century alone, with nearly 100 million killed by the Communist states of USSR and China. While some claim that Communism itself is a "state religion" -- because it has an absolute dictator whose word is law and a "holy book" of unchallenged rules -- such a claim simply equates "religion" with the human desire for power, conformance, and control, making any distinctions with other human institutions meaningless.

Your link has clearly false information in it.

Get a proper authority.

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ? Reply #475 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:50pm Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:27pm: Your link has clearly false information in it.Get a proper authority. Like what?
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gold_medal

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #476 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 4:06pm

... wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 1:30pm:

I don't think people could have built western civilisation while on opiates (not opium). The Greeks and the Romans were also religious, you will be surprised. Religion doesn't mean lotus eater.

Anyway, it is completely unremarkable that religion is a pacifier as far as it acts as an internalised set of standards shared by people. And all religions act like that - that's why they are called ... er... religion, a binding, a common belief.

The never ending list of religious wars tell me different.

True Pansi - more wars caused by religion than anything else.
Also - more halfwits in the world who believe in fairy tales.

Don't you guys ever even consider checking these bogus catchphrases before repeating them ad nauseum?

Quote:

In their recently published book, "Encyclopedia of Wars," authors Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod document the history of recorded warfare, and from their list of 1763 wars only 123 have been classified to involve a religious cause, accounting for less than 7 percent of all wars and less than 2 percent of all people killed in warfare. While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

History simply does not support the hypothesis that religion is the major cause of conflict. The wars of the ancient world were rarely, if ever, based on religion. These wars were for territorial conquest, to control borders, secure trade routes, or respond to an internal challenge to political authority. In fact, the ancient conquerors, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, or Roman, openly welcomed the religious beliefs of those they conquered, and often added the new gods to their own pantheon.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-alan-lurie/is-religion-the-cause-of-_b_14007...

bummer for all those convenient illusions and biases to be dispatched so easily and so forcefully!

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gizmo_2655

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #477 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 4:09pm

... wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 2:55pm:

3,000 in the Inquisition ? - and the rest - try millions of people.

From the link:

Quote:

While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

....

Similarly, the vast numbers of genocides (those killed in ethic cleanses, purges, etc. that are not connected to a declared war) are not based on religion. It's estimated that over 160 million civilians were killed in genocides in the 20th century alone, with nearly 100 million killed by the Communist states of USSR and China. While some claim that Communism itself is a "state religion" -- because it has an absolute dictator whose word is law and a "holy book" of unchallenged rules -- such a claim simply equates "religion" with the human desire for power, conformance, and control, making any distinctions with other human institutions meaningless.

I'm going to have agree (shock - horror) with Bobby on this one...you're out by a factor of 10..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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gold_medal

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #478 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 4:10pm

... wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:50pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 3:27pm:

Your link has clearly false information in it.Get a proper authority.

Like what?

something that agrees with HIM.

the death toll from teh inquisition wasnt millions - it was thousands. No one is defending it, but it woudl be good to get a little accuracy into the discussion.

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #479 - Jan 9^th, 2013 at 4:16pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 4:09pm:

I'm going to have agree (shock - horror) with Bobby on this one...you're out by a factor of 10..

I think the reason why it's so hard to find a consistent death toll, despite the meticulous record keeping of the inquisiotrs, is that there was no one inquisition. The spanish inquisition is the one everyone knows, but there were several others.

regardless, no reputable source puts the combined death toll of all inquisitions at even 1 million.

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