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What does it mean to be a Christian these days ? (Read 74966 times)
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #480 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:19pm
 
Death tolls

Quote:
García Cárcel estimates that the total number processed by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000; applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560–1700—about 2%—the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death. Nevertheless, very probably this total should be raised keeping in mind the data provided by Dedieu and García Cárcel for the tribunals of Toledo and Valencia, respectively. It is likely that the total would be between 3,000 and 5,000 executed.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition#Death_tolls
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #481 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:27pm
 
... wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:16pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:09pm:
I'm going to have agree (shock - horror) with Bobby on this one...you're out by a factor of 10..



I think the reason why it's so hard to find a consistent death toll, despite the meticulous record keeping of the inquisiotrs, is that there was no one inquisition.  The spanish inquisition is the one everyone knows, but there were several others. 

regardless, no reputable source puts the combined death toll of all inquisitions at even 1 million. 


I know...somewhere between 30,000 and 350,000 are the figures I've seen..
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #482 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:29pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:27pm:
... wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:16pm:
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:09pm:
I'm going to have agree (shock - horror) with Bobby on this one...you're out by a factor of 10..



I think the reason why it's so hard to find a consistent death toll, despite the meticulous record keeping of the inquisiotrs, is that there was no one inquisition.  The spanish inquisition is the one everyone knows, but there were several others. 

regardless, no reputable source puts the combined death toll of all inquisitions at even 1 million. 


I know...somewhere between 30,000 and 350,000 are the figures I've seen..



Stalin would have killed that many before breakfast on any given day.
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #483 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:36pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 4:09pm:
... wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 3:05pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 2:55pm:
3,000 in the Inquisition ?  - and the rest - try  millions of people.


From the link:

Quote:
While, for example, it is estimated that approximately one to three million people were tragically killed in the Crusades, and perhaps 3,000 in the Inquisition, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in the senseless, and secular, slaughter of World War 1 alone.

....

Similarly, the vast numbers of genocides (those killed in ethic cleanses, purges, etc. that are not connected to a declared war) are not based on religion. It's estimated that over 160 million civilians were killed in genocides in the 20th century alone, with nearly 100 million killed by the Communist states of USSR and China. While some claim that Communism itself is a "state religion" -- because it has an absolute dictator whose word is law and a "holy book" of unchallenged rules -- such a claim simply equates "religion" with the human desire for power, conformance, and control, making any distinctions with other human institutions meaningless.




I'm going to have agree (shock - horror) with Bobby on this one...you're out by a factor of 10..


while possibly correct, your opinion isnt worth any more than boobys. where are the facts?

PS your opinion will always be worth far more than boobys. your opinion is likely to be correct while his is unlikely to be even close.
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #484 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:18pm
 
The basic ethics taught by Jesus in the sermon on the mount are much superior than anything Atheists or the right have to offer, they form a big part of the basis of my values system.  I would not call myself a believer...but an agree-er... Cheesy
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #485 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:22pm
 
I already covered the Inquisition & numbers in great detail.
Here was one of my posts:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 7th, 2013 at 10:52pm:
Here are some numbers for you.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm

Quote:
Protestant and Catholic rivaled each other in the madness of the hour. Witches were burned no longer in ones and twos, but in scores and hundreds. A bishop of Geneva is said to have burned five hundred within three months, a bishop of Bamburg six hundred, a bishop of Wurzburg nine hundred. Eight hundred were condemned, apparently in one body, by the Senate of Savoy. Nicholaus Remigius, the criminal judge in Lorraine, boasted that in 15 years he had sent to death 900 people for the crime of witchcraft. In one year alone he forced 16 witches to commit suicide.



The Archbishop of Treves burned a hundred and eighteen women and two men, from whom confessions had been extorted that their incantations had prolonged the winter. Paramo boasts that in a century and a half from the commencement of the sect, in 1404, the Holy Office had burned at least 30,000 witches. Cumanus, in Italy, burned 41 women in one province alone. Strasbourg, burned 5000 in a period of 20 years.



It was reported in 1518 when the Senate was officially informed that the inquisitor had burned 70 witches of the Valcamonica, that he had as many in his prisons, and that those suspected or accused amounted to about 5000, or one fourth of the inhabitants of the valleys. In Germany 500 were burned in 1515 and 1516. In 1524, 1000 females accused of being witches died at Como, and for several years subsequently, the number of victims exceeded 100 annually.



In France, about 1520, the fires for the execution of witches blazed in almost every town; in one township in Piedmont there was not a family that had not lost a member; at Verneuil in 1561, women were burned on the charged of having converted themselves into cats. The delusion spread like an epidemic through the villages. Many women were murdered by mobs. At Leith, in Scotland, 9 women were burned together in 1664; the bishops’ palaces of South Germany basically became shambles--the lordly prelates of Salzburg, Wurzburg, and Bamberg taking lead in the butchery.



The executioner of Neisse in Silesia even invented an oven in which he roasted to death 42 women and young girls in one year. Within 9 years he had roasted over a 1000 people, including children 2 to 4 years old. In Wurzburg many children were burned, some no older than 9 years.





Another website claimed up to 75 million.
Do you really want me post examples from dozens of websites?


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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #486 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:25pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
Another website claimed up to 75 million.



I think we can safely disregard that figure, don't you?
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #487 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:28pm
 
... wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:25pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
Another website claimed up to 75 million.



I think we can safely disregard that figure, don't you?


75 million sees too large but we will never know unless someone
goes through many websites to check.


Maybe we'll set that as a task for Longweekend ? - the Inquisition Denier.
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« Last Edit: Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:48pm by Bobby. »  
 
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #488 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:28pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:22pm:
I already covered the Inquisition & numbers in great detail.
Here was one of my posts:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 7th, 2013 at 10:52pm:
Here are some numbers for you.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican29.htm

Quote:
Protestant and Catholic rivaled each other in the madness of the hour. Witches were burned no longer in ones and twos, but in scores and hundreds. A bishop of Geneva is said to have burned five hundred within three months, a bishop of Bamburg six hundred, a bishop of Wurzburg nine hundred. Eight hundred were condemned, apparently in one body, by the Senate of Savoy. Nicholaus Remigius, the criminal judge in Lorraine, boasted that in 15 years he had sent to death 900 people for the crime of witchcraft. In one year alone he forced 16 witches to commit suicide.



The Archbishop of Treves burned a hundred and eighteen women and two men, from whom confessions had been extorted that their incantations had prolonged the winter. Paramo boasts that in a century and a half from the commencement of the sect, in 1404, the Holy Office had burned at least 30,000 witches. Cumanus, in Italy, burned 41 women in one province alone. Strasbourg, burned 5000 in a period of 20 years.



It was reported in 1518 when the Senate was officially informed that the inquisitor had burned 70 witches of the Valcamonica, that he had as many in his prisons, and that those suspected or accused amounted to about 5000, or one fourth of the inhabitants of the valleys. In Germany 500 were burned in 1515 and 1516. In 1524, 1000 females accused of being witches died at Como, and for several years subsequently, the number of victims exceeded 100 annually.



In France, about 1520, the fires for the execution of witches blazed in almost every town; in one township in Piedmont there was not a family that had not lost a member; at Verneuil in 1561, women were burned on the charged of having converted themselves into cats. The delusion spread like an epidemic through the villages. Many women were murdered by mobs. At Leith, in Scotland, 9 women were burned together in 1664; the bishops’ palaces of South Germany basically became shambles--the lordly prelates of Salzburg, Wurzburg, and Bamberg taking lead in the butchery.



The executioner of Neisse in Silesia even invented an oven in which he roasted to death 42 women and young girls in one year. Within 9 years he had roasted over a 1000 people, including children 2 to 4 years old. In Wurzburg many children were burned, some no older than 9 years.





Another website claimed up to 75 million.
Do you really want me post examples from dozens of websites?




But that's the Witch Trials, not the Inquisition
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #489 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:35pm
 
Dont forget, religion is rather an intangible abstract idea...but the Government is the most destructive force on the face of the planet.  I can pick and choose the ideas from various religions and philosophies but I have little choice about the Governments and its merciless crusades against us engineered by the malevolent class... Cool
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #490 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:35pm
 
Paramo boasts that in a century and a half from the commencement of the sect, in 1404,
the Holy Office had burned at least 30,000 witches.
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #491 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:38pm
 
As i said religion is an abstract idea that cant hurt anybody...but the Government and those who exercise power is the most destructive force there is in history... Smiley
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #492 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:47pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:35pm:
Paramo boasts that in a century and a half from the commencement of the sect, in 1404,
the Holy Office had burned at least 30,000 witches.


Who's Paramo??
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #493 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:51pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:47pm:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:35pm:
Paramo boasts that in a century and a half from the commencement of the sect, in 1404,
the Holy Office had burned at least 30,000 witches.


Who's Paramo??




Quote:
The Archbishop of Treves burned a hundred and eighteen women and two men, from whom confessions had been extorted that their incantations had prolonged the winter. Paramo boasts that in a century and a half from the commencement of the sect, in 1404, the Holy Office had burned at least 30,000 witches. Cumanus, in Italy, burned 41 women in one province alone. Strasbourg, burned 5000 in a period of 20 years.



more here:

http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=345&...

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Re: What does it mean to be a Christian these days ?
Reply #494 - Jan 9th, 2013 at 5:58pm
 
The Church during the dark ages was the Government.  The Government has never changed its nature, nor its goals.  It still kills mercilessly.  Those who seek power do so to liquidate the peaceful and the marginalized...as they did to the Anabaptist and the Albigensians, also known as the good men, so they target pacifists today... Smiley
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