progressiveslol wrote on Jan 10^th, 2013 at 11:17am:


As I have already said CO2 isn't the only thing that changes climate but it is one of the things.

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 10^th, 2013 at 11:39am:


*In your uneducated and biased opinion*, to an almost undetectable measure.  I think that's what you were meant to say.

gold_medal wrote on Jan 9^th, 2013 at 4:22pm:


This is the usual faulty logic by the skeptics (or plain deceptive logic).

Just because the climate changed naturally in the past does not mean that the current warming has to be natural also.

Quite the opposite. The fact that natural forces were able to change the climate in the past gives more weight to the idea that mankinds tinkering with the atmosphere (by increasing the concentrations of greenhouse gasses) can also change the climate.

http://www.c3headlines.com/2010/06/2010-antarctica-peerreviewed-research-ice-core-data-confirms-medieval-period-warmer-than-present.html

2010 Antarctica Peer-Reviewed Research: Ice Core Data Confirms Medieval Period Warmer Than Present



Read here. Scientists using the latest analysis techniques, conducted a high resolution analysis of the ice core retrieved from Antarctica's Dome C station. The Dome C is located on the eastern half of Antarctica, on the polar plateau with an elevation of 10,607 feet. (The more well-known Vostok polar station is located on the same plateau at a similar elevation, ~ 3,200 meters.)

What did this new high resolution analysis determine?
1.The Medieval Warming period had temperatures that approached 1°C higher than current temperatures, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
2.The Minoan Warming period had temperatures that possibly exceeded current temperatures by 1°C, in spite of lower CO2 levels.
3.The previous interglacial period, approximately 130,000 years ago, had temperatures in excess of 4°C versus current temperatures, in spite of lower CO2 levels.

Clearly, the new ice core data indicates that natural climate variations caused huge temperature variations in the past. Based on this empirical climate science, it would be safe to conclude that current climate changes are predominantly driven by natural forces (see this chart and post also), not human CO2 trace gas emissions. (click on image to enlarge)

This high resolution ice core data ends at the year 1912. The similarly situated Vostok polar station temperature record was used as proxy to assess polar plateau temperature increase/decrease over the last 60 years. As the Vostok temperature data reveals, current temperatures may actually be lower than what the Antarctica plateau experienced during the 1950's. In addition, peer-reviewed studies indicate Antarctica temperature change to be minimal over last two centuries.

Download this newest Dome C ice core research, source here.

The_Barnacle wrote on Jan 10^th, 2013 at 9:46am:

These pretty graphs and sources should keep you going a while. Look forward to you reporting back.

http://www.c3headlines.com/temperature-charts-historical-proxies.html

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 10^th, 2013 at 9:55am:

None of these graphs support Gold Medal's statement that the MWP was 4 degrees warmer globally than today.

If you think I am wrong - please point out for us which is the relevant graph.

And could you also explain why you think it is relevant in any way to the impact on global temperatures being caused by anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions today.  What is the connection?

progressiveslol wrote on Jan 10^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:



Wow!  What iron clad logic!  DO you actually know what the "greenhouse effect" is?


ANd what makes you think  :Co2 has always been an effect, not a cause"?:

Global warming preceded by increasing carbon dioxide concentrations during the last deglaciation

These observations, together with transient global climate model simulations, support the conclusion that an antiphased hemispheric temperature response to ocean circulation changes superimposed on globally in-phase warming driven by increasing CO2 concentrations is an explanation for much of the temperature change at the end of the most recent ice age.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7392/full/nature10915.html


Past extreme warming events linked to massive carbon release from thawing permafrost
Between about 55.5 and 52 million years ago, Earth experienced a series of sudden and extreme global warming events (hyperthermals) superimposed on a long-term warming trend1. The first and largest of these events, the Palaeocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum (PETM), is characterized by a massive input of carbon, ocean acidification2 and an increase in global temperature of about 5 °C within a few thousand years3. Although various explanations for the PETM have been proposed4, 5, 6, a satisfactory model that accounts for the source, magnitude and timing of carbon release at the PETM and successive hyperthermals remains elusive. Here we use a new astronomically calibrated cyclostratigraphic record from central Italy7 to show that the Early Eocene hyperthermals occurred during orbits with a combination of high eccentricity and high obliquity. Corresponding climate–ecosystem–soil simulations accounting for rising concentrations of background greenhouse gases8 and orbital forcing show that the magnitude and timing of the PETM and subsequent hyperthermals can be explained by the orbitally triggered decomposition of soil organic carbon in circum-Arctic and Antarctic terrestrial permafrost.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7392/full/nature10929.html

The most likely explanation for these changes is a massive discharge of methane hydrate from beneath the
sea floor - scientists estimate it to have released over 2000 gigatonnes of carbon into the atmosphere from the
extent of the shift toward light carbon isotopes in the organic residue (Zachos et al., 2005). This would have
more than quadrupled the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere (methane decays rapidly to CO2 ) and raised
global temperature by more than 5 ºC. However, as the deep-sea record shows, the climate did return to
normal and the greenhouse world continued.

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jan 10^th, 2013 at 1:01pm:


So what caused the permafrost to melt in the first place??

And IF heat caused the release of large amounts of Co2 then, why isn't it likely that the recent increases in Co2 are from natural expulsions by the oceans and permafrost this time??