Australian Politics Forum - Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?

Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #210 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 9:57pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 5:48pm:

None of the "peacekeeping action" that constituted the Vietnam war for our side was technically a war. That doesn’t exempt those involved from the Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war. The evidence of war crimes is there, and if there was a solid enough international legal framework, those responsible in Australia and the US could legally be indicted and prosecuted.

I’m referring to both Tonkin incidents, as I doubt there would be a need for a second if the US was found to be faultless in the first. Still, these incidents were only instrumental in getting force approved by the US Congress. The international standards that apply today were not as applicable during the height of the Cold War, and anyway, war courts and tribunals are only ever established by a victor against the vanquished.

What’s amazing today, 37 years on, is being able to walk the streets of Hanoi and be made to feel welcome. Same in Cambodia, same in Laos. Sure, the dollar is a powerful motivator, but we’re talking about an entire region where everyone knows someone who was killed by a US bomb, bullet, landmine, flamethrower or nepalm attack. Everyone.

A few years after the "Amerikan war", the Vietnamese had to do some peacekeeping action of their own in Cambodia. If you want my idea of a just war, there it is: getting rid of the Khmer Rouge. In Cambodia, you see very few people over 50, and they’ve forgiven us too. You see?

All are forgiven unconditionally and loved beyond measure.

You're right Karnal,
All those who have seen the video & not seen war crimes are forgiven
& loved beyond measure.

namaste.

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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96707	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #211 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:10pm What do you think, Bobbie? We’re all brown inside, eh?
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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107149 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #212 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:13pm Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:10pm: What do you think, Bobbie? We’re all brown inside, eh? What do you mean?
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #213 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:15pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 9:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 5:48pm:

None of the "peacekeeping action" that constituted the Vietnam war for our side was technically a war. That doesn’t exempt those involved from the Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war. The evidence of war crimes is there, and if there was a solid enough international legal framework, those responsible in Australia and the US could legally be indicted and prosecuted.

I’m referring to both Tonkin incidents, as I doubt there would be a need for a second if the US was found to be faultless in the first. Still, these incidents were only instrumental in getting force approved by the US Congress. The international standards that apply today were not as applicable during the height of the Cold War, and anyway, war courts and tribunals are only ever established by a victor against the vanquished.

What’s amazing today, 37 years on, is being able to walk the streets of Hanoi and be made to feel welcome. Same in Cambodia, same in Laos. Sure, the dollar is a powerful motivator, but we’re talking about an entire region where everyone knows someone who was killed by a US bomb, bullet, landmine, flamethrower or nepalm attack. Everyone.

A few years after the "Amerikan war", the Vietnamese had to do some peacekeeping action of their own in Cambodia. If you want my idea of a just war, there it is: getting rid of the Khmer Rouge. In Cambodia, you see very few people over 50, and they’ve forgiven us too. You see?

All are forgiven unconditionally and loved beyond measure.

You're right Karnal,
All those who have seen the video & not seen war crimes are forgiven
& loved beyond measure.

namaste.

Bobby, it's a rolling stones music video....it's not a documentary..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96707	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #214 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:17pm I mean the whites, darkies, yellow races, tinted races. We’re all the same deep down. We all have the same wants and desires, eh?
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Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #215 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:18pm

Gizmo,
Quote:

Bobby, it's a rolling stones music video....it's not a documentary..

The song was written in 1969.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_Shelter

Quote:

On the recording of the album, Jagger said in a 1995 interview with Rolling Stone, "Well, it's a very rough, very violent era. The Vietnam War. Violence on the screens, pillage and burning. And Vietnam was not war as we knew it in the conventional sense..." On the song itself, he concluded, "That's a kind of end-of-the-world song, really. It's apocalypse; the whole record's like that."

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107149 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #216 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:19pm Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:17pm: I mean the whites, darkies, yellow races, tinted races. We’re all the same deep down. We all have the same wants and desires, eh? We do - we are genetically extremely similar too.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #217 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:27pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:18pm:

Gizmo,
Quote:

Bobby, it's a rolling stones music video....it's not a documentary..

The song was written in 1969.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_Shelter

Quote:

On the recording of the album, Jagger said in a 1995 interview with Rolling Stone, "Well, it's a very rough, very violent era. The Vietnam War. Violence on the screens, pillage and burning. And Vietnam was not war as we knew it in the conventional sense..." On the song itself, he concluded, "That's a kind of end-of-the-world song, really. It's apocalypse; the whole record's like that."

So??? the footage has been used in dozens of movies, and tv shows, and nothing in it could be construed as 'war crime' using the 'reasonable person' test..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107149 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #218 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:39pm Dear Gizmo, the song is appropriate for the images.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #219 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:39pm:

Dear Gizmo,
the song is appropriate for the images.

Did you read the dedication at the end of the vid??

Images of a football match would also be appropriate to the song..

And the song is also appropriate for these images.

That's the thing about good songs, they work in almost any context.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Karnal

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #220 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:19pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

I mean the whites, darkies, yellow races, tinted races. We’re all the same deep down. We all have the same wants and desires, eh?

We do - we are genetically extremely similar too.

Not extremely similar, old son. The same. According to the Human Genome Project, they can’t find a different gene for whites, darkies, yellow hoards, coloureds, blacks.

We’re all brown inside.

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Karnal

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #221 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:23pm

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:18pm:

Gizmo,
Quote:

Bobby, it's a rolling stones music video....it's not a documentary..

The song was written in 1969.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_Shelter

Quote:

On the recording of the album, Jagger said in a 1995 interview with Rolling Stone, "Well, it's a very rough, very violent era. The Vietnam War. Violence on the screens, pillage and burning. And Vietnam was not war as we knew it in the conventional sense..." On the song itself, he concluded, "That's a kind of end-of-the-world song, really. It's apocalypse; the whole record's like that."

So??? the footage has been used in dozens of movies, and tv shows, and nothing in it could be construed as 'war crime' using the 'reasonable person' test..

Sure. Have we run it past the Light yet?

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107149 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #222 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:25pm As Jagger said the song represents an apocalypse. Very appropriate for many of our wars.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #223 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:35pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:23pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:27pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 10:18pm:

Gizmo,
Quote:

Bobby, it's a rolling stones music video....it's not a documentary..

The song was written in 1969.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimme_Shelter

Quote:

On the recording of the album, Jagger said in a 1995 interview with Rolling Stone, "Well, it's a very rough, very violent era. The Vietnam War. Violence on the screens, pillage and burning. And Vietnam was not war as we knew it in the conventional sense..." On the song itself, he concluded, "That's a kind of end-of-the-world song, really. It's apocalypse; the whole record's like that."

So??? the footage has been used in dozens of movies, and tv shows, and nothing in it could be construed as 'war crime' using the 'reasonable person' test..

Sure. Have we run it past the Light yet?

Sorry Karnal, that wasn't UNreasonable person...so wharfy isn't qualified..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #224 - Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:38pm

Bobby. wrote on Jan 26^th, 2013 at 11:25pm:

As Jagger said the song represents an apocalypse.

Very appropriate for many of our wars.

LOL and the apocalypse strangely never eventuates..

I'll tell you a secret Bobby..each and every generation has apocalyptic dread and thinks their parents are going to cause it. That is until they become parents and their teenage children feel the same way about them...

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Poll
Question: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
yes 12 (42.9%) no 15 (53.6%) not sure 1 (3.6%) Total votes: 28 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jan 25^th, 2013 at 8:27am »