Australian Politics Forum - Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #240 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 8:06am

KJT1981 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 7:50am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 7:36am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 6:42am:

BigOl64 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 6:25am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 5:00am:

Heck of a choice for a vacation.

Actually Vietnam is a great choice for hols, Im going there this year, really looking forward to it.

Don't disagree bigol.
However I imagine 1968 - 1975 it wouldn't be as pleasant.

Not exactly Majorca.

Typical though that you would call it a "vacation".

SOB

Personal abuse.

Reported.

Go away troll

SOB

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Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #241 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:09am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:17am:

Very sad - there can be no doubt that many war crimes were committed in Vietnam.

True, there were war crimes committed in the Vietnam War....BUT the war itself wasn't one of them..

War is never a crime.

War can be a crime if it's termed a war of aggression - refer the Nuremberg Trials.

Have a look at some links:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-crime-of-war-from-nuremberg-to-fallujah/349

http://www.benferencz.org/index.php?id=4&article=102

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/overview/crimes_1.shtml

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #242 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:28am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:17am:

Very sad - there can be no doubt that many war crimes were committed in Vietnam.

True, there were war crimes committed in the Vietnam War....BUT the war itself wasn't one of them..

War is never a crime.

War can be a crime if it's termed a war of aggression - refer the Nuremberg Trials.

Have a look at some links:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-crime-of-war-from-nuremberg-to-fallujah/349

http://www.benferencz.org/index.php?id=4&article=102

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/overview/crimes_1.shtml

Nuremberg was about prosecuting individuals for crimes that took place during a war.....mainly the unjustified killing of non-combatants.

I know the current philosophy is that war is always a crime and the violence is never a solution to anything....however neither of those statements are true in the real world.

And on the subject of 'wars of aggression', and to provide a perspective, doesn't that mean that the Arab League Armies were committing a 'war crime' when they attack Israel in 1948??

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It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #243 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:54am

Yes Gizmo,
It seems that the Nuremberg trials were just victors justice as Goering said.

I would say that all wars are evil & a crime unless for self defense but even then
there has to be limits which were well exceeded in Vietnam.

The whole war was based on a false flag operation in the Gulf of Tonkin.
That alone makes it a contrived illegal war.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #244 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:15am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:17am:

Very sad - there can be no doubt that many war crimes were committed in Vietnam.

True, there were war crimes committed in the Vietnam War....BUT the war itself wasn't one of them..

War is never a crime.

War can be a crime if it's termed a war of aggression - refer the Nuremberg Trials.

Have a look at some links:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-crime-of-war-from-nuremberg-to-fallujah/349

http://www.benferencz.org/index.php?id=4&article=102

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/overview/crimes_1.shtml

Nuremberg was about prosecuting individuals for crimes that took place during a war.....mainly the unjustified killing of non-combatants.

I know the current philosophy is that war is always a crime and the violence is never a solution to anything....however neither of those statements are true in the real world.

And on the subject of 'wars of aggression', and to provide a perspective, doesn't that mean that the Arab League Armies were committing a 'war crime' when they attack Israel in 1948??

The US has always been at war with someone. It's good for their economy and creates lots of jobs for American arms manufacturers and dealers. That's the real world you talk about Sad

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KJT1981

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #245 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:18am

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:15am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:17am:

Very sad - there can be no doubt that many war crimes were committed in Vietnam.

True, there were war crimes committed in the Vietnam War....BUT the war itself wasn't one of them..

War is never a crime.

War can be a crime if it's termed a war of aggression - refer the Nuremberg Trials.

Have a look at some links:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-crime-of-war-from-nuremberg-to-fallujah/349

http://www.benferencz.org/index.php?id=4&article=102

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/overview/crimes_1.shtml

Nuremberg was about prosecuting individuals for crimes that took place during a war.....mainly the unjustified killing of non-combatants.

I know the current philosophy is that war is always a crime and the violence is never a solution to anything....however neither of those statements are true in the real world.

And on the subject of 'wars of aggression', and to provide a perspective, doesn't that mean that the Arab League Armies were committing a 'war crime' when they attack Israel in 1948??

The US has always been at war with someone. It's good for their economy and creates lots of jobs for American arms manufacturers and dealers. That's the real world you talk about Sad

Off course you can back that up!

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it_is_the_light

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #246 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:33am

Karnal wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:45am:

You’re not wrong there, son. If it wasn’t for war, blokes like me and the Light would have been out of a job in our day.

But war is sometimes a crime. The interim Iraqi government convicted Saddam with the illegal invasion of Kuwait, so it’s possible.

It just depends on who gets you for it.

Kuwait was slant drilling into saddams turf old man

with the assistance of the US covert ops..

of which it would seem you know nothing of what..

this is ok and cool,

my old friend

- : )

namaste

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ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 107161 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime? Reply #247 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:36am Nail, Quote: The US has always been at war with someone. It's good for their economy and creates lots of jobs for American arms manufacturers and dealers. That's the real world you talk about. Hear hear Nail, the USA relies on War for their economy. If peace broke out they would be in trouble.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #248 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:37am

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Yes Gizmo,
It seems that the Nuremberg trials were just victors justice as Goering said.

I would say that all wars are evil & a crime unless for self defense but even then
there has to be limits which were well exceeded in Vietnam.

The whole war was based on a false flag operation in the Gulf of Tonkin.
That alone makes it a contrived illegal war.

What are you talking about???
Vietnam was NOT based solely on the Gulf of Tonkin incident....it was about the attempted military takeover of South Vietnam by North Vietnam. The Americans were involved in an advisory capacity years before the Tonkin incident. After the USS Maddox got into a fire-fight with NVN boats, the US did increase their military involvement..

BTW, the 'false flag' Tonkin incident took place 2 DAYS after the real one..

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #249 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Yes Gizmo,
It seems that the Nuremberg trials were just victors justice as Goering said.

I would say that all wars are evil & a crime unless for self defense but even then
there has to be limits which were well exceeded in Vietnam.

The whole war was based on a false flag operation in the Gulf of Tonkin.
That alone makes it a contrived illegal war.

What are you talking about???
Vietnam was NOT based solely on the Gulf of Tonkin incident....it was about the attempted military takeover of South Vietnam by North Vietnam. The Americans were involved in an advisory capacity years before the Tonkin incident. After the USS Maddox got into a fire-fight with NVN boats, the US did increase their military involvement..

BTW, the 'false flag' Tonkin incident took place 2 DAYS after the real one..

Attempted?

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BigOl64

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #250 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:38am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 8:01am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 4:49am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:17am:

Very sad - there can be no doubt that many war crimes were committed in Vietnam.

True, there were war crimes committed in the Vietnam War....BUT the war itself wasn't one of them..

War is never a crime.

Why not? Because then you would have to say invading another country is a crime?

SOB

Nope, because War is just 'full contact' diplomacy.

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Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #251 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:39am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:54am:

Yes Gizmo,
It seems that the Nuremberg trials were just victors justice as Goering said.

I would say that all wars are evil & a crime unless for self defense but even then
there has to be limits which were well exceeded in Vietnam.

The whole war was based on a false flag operation in the Gulf of Tonkin.
That alone makes it a contrived illegal war.

What are you talking about???
Vietnam was NOT based solely on the Gulf of Tonkin incident....it was about the attempted military takeover of South Vietnam by North Vietnam. The Americans were involved in an advisory capacity years before the Tonkin incident. After the USS Maddox got into a fire-fight with NVN boats, the US did increase their military involvement..

BTW, the 'false flag' Tonkin incident took place 2 DAYS after the real one..

The Tonkin incident was a contrived lie used as a pretext to get America into a war.
It is evil to do that.

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Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #252 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:42am

it_is_the_light wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:33am:

Karnal wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:45am:

You’re not wrong there, son. If it wasn’t for war, blokes like me and the Light would have been out of a job in our day.

But war is sometimes a crime. The interim Iraqi government convicted Saddam with the illegal invasion of Kuwait, so it’s possible.

It just depends on who gets you for it.

Kuwait was slant drilling into saddams turf old man

with the assistance of the US covert ops..

of which it would seem you know nothing of what..

this is ok and cool,

my old friend

- : )

namaste

Listen to Light - he always knows the inside story.
The Kuwaitis were thieves.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #253 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:44am

KJT1981 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:18am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:15am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:23am:

Bobby. wrote on Jan 27^th, 2013 at 12:17am:

Very sad - there can be no doubt that many war crimes were committed in Vietnam.

True, there were war crimes committed in the Vietnam War....BUT the war itself wasn't one of them..

War is never a crime.

War can be a crime if it's termed a war of aggression - refer the Nuremberg Trials.

Have a look at some links:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-crime-of-war-from-nuremberg-to-fallujah/349

http://www.benferencz.org/index.php?id=4&article=102

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/war/overview/crimes_1.shtml

Nuremberg was about prosecuting individuals for crimes that took place during a war.....mainly the unjustified killing of non-combatants.

I know the current philosophy is that war is always a crime and the violence is never a solution to anything....however neither of those statements are true in the real world.

And on the subject of 'wars of aggression', and to provide a perspective, doesn't that mean that the Arab League Armies were committing a 'war crime' when they attack Israel in 1948??

The US has always been at war with someone. It's good for their economy and creates lots of jobs for American arms manufacturers and dealers. That's the real world you talk about Sad

Off course you can back that up!

anyone can back it up.

Quote:

Since the end of WWI & WWII..America has been actively involved in War in somewhere in the world.. call it "War economy".. In 50's it was Korea war and then followed by active and passive participation in cold war with Soviets and pasively helping Israel in war of 67.. Then the Vietnam war in 70's followed by covert war in Afghanistan against Soviets..then follwed with war in Bosnia then had 2 gulf wars that ended after occupation of Iraq and since 2001 in Afganistan and now almost in Pakistan ..where is it going to end.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/americas/32642-america-always-war-since-1945-a.html#ixzz2J8FjXQmi

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Bobby.

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Re: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
Reply #254 - Jan 27^th, 2013 at 10:47am

Nail,
Quote:

Since the end of WWI & WWII..America has been actively involved in War in somewhere in the world.. call it "War economy".. In 50's it was Korea war and then followed by active and passive participation in cold war with Soviets and pasively helping Israel in war of 67.. Then the Vietnam war in 70's followed by covert war in Afghanistan against Soviets..then follwed with war in Bosnia then had 2 gulf wars that ended after occupation of Iraq and since 2001 in Afganistan and now almost in Pakistan ..where is it going to end.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/americas/32642-america-always-war-since-1945-a.html#ixzz2J8FjXQmi

Good post Nail,
the Yanks would be in Syria too if they weren't so bankrupt.

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Poll
Question: Was the Vietnam war a War Crime?
yes 12 (42.9%) no 15 (53.6%) not sure 1 (3.6%) Total votes: 28 « Created by: Bobby. on: Jan 25^th, 2013 at 8:27am »