Australian Politics Forum - Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries

rabbitoh07

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #120 - Feb 15^th, 2013 at 12:10am

dealwithit wrote on Feb 14^th, 2013 at 11:32pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 13^th, 2013 at 10:41pm:

Big fail.

Really? Perhaps if you actually took the time to examine the protocol you would see
Quote:

During the first commitment period, 37 industrialized countries and the European Community committed to reduce GHG emissions to an average of five percent against 1990 levels. During the second commitment period, Parties committed to reduce GHG emissions by at least 18 percent below 1990 levels in the eight-year period from 2013 to 2020; however, the composition of Parties in the second commitment period is different from the first.

from unfccc
However, to be realistic about this Quote:

At negotiations, Annex I countries collectively agreed to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions by 5.2% on average for the period 2008-2012, relative to their annual emissions in a base year, usually 1990. Since the US has not ratified the treaty, the collective emissions reduction of Annex I Kyoto countries falls from 5.2% to 4.2% below base year.[16]:

from Wikki
Quote:

The Kyoto Protocol treaty was negotiated in December 1997 at the city of Kyoto, Japan and came into force February 16th, 2005.

from kyotoprotocol dot com
If you had taken the time to understand what has actually happened, you would be aware that no limits were set. They were negotiated and agreed to. This is extremely different to your claim that they were set by the Kyoto protocol.

Also if you want a greater knowledge of what has actually occurred. You could find out what Annex 1 countries are. Then you might have some idea how they compiled the actual agreement, to decide what level is acceptable for reductions.

No Sonny.

You claimed that the Kyoto Protocol had no mandatory targets. That i "the only agreement reached was to make agreement that something should be done"

You were 100% WRONG.

BiG FAIL

If you have something to say - grow up and stop making stuff up.

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Emma

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #121 - Feb 15^th, 2013 at 12:16am

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 9:40pm:

I suspect gizmo and longy are taking a leaf out of Tony Abbott's book - reject the science outright, but pretend to accept the need for action and follow this through with having completely absurd positions, because not believing the science justifies making no sense at all on every other aspect
.

Spot on FD....

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dealwithit

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #122 - Feb 15^th, 2013 at 12:44am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Feb 15^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

No Sonny.

You claimed that the Kyoto Protocol had no mandatory targets. That i "the only agreement reached was to make agreement that something should be done"

You were 100% WRONG.

BiG FAIL

If you have something to say - grow up and stop making stuff up.

That is correct... that is what I said. And you proclaimed that they set mandatory targets... which are incorrect. Their aim was to set mandatory reductions however that was unacceptable. So over the next few years they negotiated with each country.

So again, perhaps if you had actually done your research you would understand that it is not as cut and dry as you think it to be.

As I have quoted several articles, including the article you proclaimed as evidence of failure, I would consider that it is not 'made up' but whatever floats your boat.

However, this does not detract from the fact that the 'per capita' figure claimed to be so all important is actually only used as a political tool to baffle the weak minded and has no intrinsic value to making policy

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #123 - Feb 15^th, 2013 at 12:48am DEMOCRACY IS DETAILED!!!!!!!
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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #124 - Feb 15^th, 2013 at 1:39am looks all nice and shiny... polished chrome, blackened tyres... some even have white walls...
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freediver

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #125 - Feb 15^th, 2013 at 9:09pm

dealwithit wrote on Feb 13^th, 2013 at 10:17pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 10:11pm:

Sigh. Another one who cannot even string a sentence together. Try again please.

Oh, and I thought you were such the articulate one.

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 10:11pm:

No. What demand are you referring to?

Sorry, further down the post you declare that this is exactly the system used when the Kyoto protocol was set.

The demand by AGW nutters that everybody has to reduce their emissions. This is why the 'Per Capita' figure was used to justify the Carbon Tax and people such as yourself are determined to defend it.

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 10:11pm:

What individuals do should be left to market forces.

However, that is not what you are portraying when you are in use of 'per capita' figures. You are portraying that each individual has the ability to reduce emissions, which is a fallacy.

For example, did you emit 4t of CO2 today? Do you emit the 'Per capita' amount on a daily basis? Then who, If not you? If you actually had any real idea of who is emitting the amount you proclaim to be an issue, you would be surprised.

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 10:11pm:

I think you will find that the countries subject to mandatory targets under the Kyoto protocol were chosen largely on this principle.

I think you will find that you are very much incorrect. I also think you know very little about the agreement of the Kyoto protocol if you assume there where mandatory targets set on any country due entirely of the fact, the only agreement reached was to make agreement that something should be done.

So far you have not addressed any point raised.
Since the fact that ‘per capita’ rates do not demonstrate who is emitting the CO2, why is it a good figure to use? An example of which is China, you say that acceptable levels of CO2 emissions are due to averaging over population. However, what percentage of the population in China are emitting the CO2? Considering a very large amount of Chinese people are emitting very little emission, hardly noticeable across the national emissions, how do you know exactly what it is? For exaggerated purposes let us say 10% of the Chinese population is emitting 90% if the CO2, then would that not be far worse than Australia where say 10% are emitting 90% of the CO2? How do you know these figures are wrong?

You are wrong on just about every single point you make. The rest don't even make sense. How about you start by addressing what I actually post rather than these elaborate stories about what you think I am 'portraying'.

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longweekend58

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #126 - Feb 16^th, 2013 at 10:52am

freediver wrote on Feb 12^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

Longy do you agree with gizmo about splitting China up into smaller countries? Is that what you mean by articulating your argument clearly and strongly?

do you even know - you retarded dimwit - that that was not his argument nor mine? do you even know how to read and comprehend another person's opinion or position because apparently you have not the foggiest clue.

You used to be a good poster with actual arguments and debating skill. You are now no better than lastnail where you simply misrepresent others posts and then abuse them.

I have oftern referred to the pro-ACC crowd as 'climate hysterics'. Thanks for proving my point.

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freediver

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #127 - Feb 16^th, 2013 at 11:33am

Quote:

do you even know - you retarded dimwit - that that was not his argument nor mine?

It is what he said Longy. I am having trouble finding the bit where you and gizmo articulated your positions 'clearly and strongly'. Is this it?

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 7:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 7:17pm:

Quote:

No, I don't agree with that..which was YOUR comment from the OP btw.

I did not suggest it was your comment. I did suggest you appeared to agree with it, for example with this particularly 'enlightening' response:

Quote:

Nope it wouldn't...because the 2 ex-china countries would be producing 11.75% of the World's emissions (still 10 times what Australia does)

Combine this with your inability to even comprehend what per capita means and you have some serious questions to answer.

For example, suppose China was broken up into many smaller countries with similar total GHG emissions to Australia. How exactly would you phrase your argument then? Would this render you incapable of criticising Chinese emissions?

Possibly....Then the playing field would be closer to level than it is now..

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longweekend58

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #128 - Feb 16^th, 2013 at 3:52pm

freediver wrote on Feb 16^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

Quote:

do you even know - you retarded dimwit - that that was not his argument nor mine?

It is what he said Longy. I am having trouble finding the bit where you and gizmo articulated your positions 'clearly and strongly'. Is this it?

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 7:24pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2013 at 7:17pm:

Quote:

No, I don't agree with that..which was YOUR comment from the OP btw.

I did not suggest it was your comment. I did suggest you appeared to agree with it, for example with this particularly 'enlightening' response:

Quote:

Nope it wouldn't...because the 2 ex-china countries would be producing 11.75% of the World's emissions (still 10 times what Australia does)

Combine this with your inability to even comprehend what per capita means and you have some serious questions to answer.

For example, suppose China was broken up into many smaller countries with similar total GHG emissions to Australia. How exactly would you phrase your argument then? Would this render you incapable of criticising Chinese emissions?

Possibly....Then the playing field would be closer to level than it is now..

it is not possible to articulate a position you disagree with and have you accept that an argument was even made. this is EXACTLY the lastnail style of 'debating' and just as worthless.

And just like him you are arrogant and boring. Let us all know when you return to the FD of old where you actually came down from on high and accepted that others have a position you may not agree with but is still valid. You no longer debate. you preach hysterically and then abuse those who disagree with you - virtually everyone.

You are already a lastnail clone/ are you planning to emulate SOB next?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #129 - Feb 16^th, 2013 at 9:58pm ahem you all like (hearing yourselves talk) writing...get over it guys this boring ciao
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49023 At my desk.	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #130 - Feb 17^th, 2013 at 8:52am Longy do you agree with what he said about splitting China up into smaller countries so their total GHG emissions are lower?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49023 At my desk.	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #131 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:09am It's happening again: Greg Combet on China's emmissions http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1362875051
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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #132 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:31pm Really the Emissions thing is just turning into a giant international fraud. That fraud is the Carbon Credits trading scheme. A big phony bullsh.t setup that says you can pollute to your heart's content as long you you buy these 'carbon credits' which are nothing but 'hot air'.
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red baron

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Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries
Reply #133 - Mar 11^th, 2013 at 8:22am

We are controlling our emissions, good.

However this whole thing is a giant episode of smoke and mirrors.

The Carbon Trading Credits scheme is the biggest hoax foisted on the world in modern history.

So a Country wants to pump out more pollution, so they 'buy' Carbon Trading Credits. This is what is called flim flam or buying 'nothing'. So big polluting Countries can 'buy' these Carbon Credits which in reality are nothing, they are buying 'nothing' in order to pollute more.

This has been going on since the game of the thimble and the pea.

A big fat gigantic hoax.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49023 At my desk.	Re: Comparing our GHG emissions with foreign countries Reply #134 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 1:45pm They are not buying nothing. They are buying an actual decrease in GHG emissions.
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