Australian Politics Forum - Housing Remains Unaffordable

hadrian_now

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #90 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:59pm

It seems to me that it is both incumbent on a society from an ethical view and necessary for social cohesion that housing should be available to those for whom the market does not provide the solution.
The market does a good job allocating housing to those with various levels of income sufficient to purchase or rent according to their means. But we have many people in this country who will always be unable or at certain times will be unable to get into that market.
That is one reason we have a state. Unfortunately the state has for several decades concerned itself all too often with allocating resources to those who in all truth don't need it's assistance. We call it middle class welfare, which may be in the form of direct grants or over-generous tax relief.
For that and other reasons the state has defaulted on the housing responsibility, not that it has ever been a strong priority in this country.
PM Rudd made a promise to tackle this issue but we all know what happened to that. But this has been the only serious attention paid to the issue in a long long time.
At some point, a government will have to address it because it will only get worse. Access to reasonable housing is the first essential step to ensuring that the underbelly doesn't take over the whole social body.

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Life may be too short, so have a laugh & enjoy.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #91 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:11pm

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:59pm:

It seems to me that it is both incumbent on a society from an ethical view and necessary for social cohesion that housing should be available to those for whom the market does not provide the solution.
The market does a good job allocating housing to those with various levels of income sufficient to purchase or rent according to their means. But we have many people in this country who will always be unable or at certain times will be unable to get into that market.
That is one reason we have a state. Unfortunately the state has for several decades concerned itself all too often with allocating resources to those who in all truth don't need it's assistance. We call it middle class welfare, which may be in the form of direct grants or over-generous tax relief.
For that and other reasons the state has defaulted on the housing responsibility, not that it has ever been a strong priority in this country.
PM Rudd made a promise to tackle this issue but we all know what happened to that. But this has been the only serious attention paid to the issue in a long long time.
At some point, a government will have to address it because it will only get worse. Access to reasonable housing is the first essential step to ensuring that the underbelly doesn't take over the whole social body.

All rudd did was make matters worse by inflating the housing bubble more. Tripling the first buyers scam just encouraged people to borrow more and pay more for overpriced rubbish. There was no benefit whatsoever to the first home buyers. As usual the property scammers got their way again by using more corporate welfare to prop up their corrupt industry Sad

The housing sector in this country is no different than the retail sector which has been ripping people off for years and sending local manufacturers broke. In this case the housing sector is sending the average punter broke Sad

Watch this video and see how the scam is perpetrated !!

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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hadrian_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1041 Gender:	Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling. Reply #92 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:17pm rusty, I was referring to his promise for a large scale public housing program. Something like that would have been a much better GFC response than any of the cash splashes or the BER which was such a rip-off.
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gizmo_2655

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #93 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:31pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 9:30am:

JC Denton wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:19am:

wow you managed to get a house at $98,000. nobody could do that anymore.

A friend of mine bought a 2 bedroom house for $92,000 in October last year.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5522472249_0364f0672f.jpg

LOL no...actually closer to this (but no, that's not it)

http://ronloiterton.com.au//search/display.aspx?ln=1557187

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #94 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:38pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 5:21am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 2:42pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 2:32pm:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 11:46am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 11:40am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 9:19am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 7:57am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Feb 18^th, 2013 at 5:28am:

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 17^th, 2013 at 4:12pm:

I think the issue is, it's increasingly difficult for people to get into home ownership within a reasonable distance of the major cities or major suburban/industrial areas without:
1. taking out mortgages they may not be able to sustain in times of financial stress (someone will always sell them one)
2. either putting off having a family until middle age or being prepared to put their kids into extra-long day care & after-school care while they both work all hours of the day.

I don't think the above is an exaggeration, but some might disagree. Of course if one or more is in highly paid occupations it'a different ball game, but I'm talking about average workers here.

Possible solutions:
1. have generous in-laws prepared to house you for years while you save up because it must be hard as hell to save with Sydney rents.
2. after the war (WW2 that is) many people lived in garages for a long time, but I don't think that is allowed now.
3. move to country areas where there is work and housing is cheaper, but in a lot of cases it isn't cheaper anymore. And there is a disadvantage often with the less availability of services like medical

Just a few thoughts.

Yeah rural areas have no transport and other things (like choice of schools etc) and there is less work but the house prices are just as high in most places.

SOB

except that they arent, just another thing you made up.

http://www.realestate.com.au/buy

SOB

You might want to look again...
Mosman: 3 bedroom, 1 bath from $1.5 million
Cootamundra: 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car spaces (2 years old) $319,000

http://ronloiterton.com.au/search/results.aspx?class=1&agtid=1577

Yeah but when you arent dishonest and comparing extremes you will find its about the same in the country rural areas and suburbs of the cities. Most anyway i doubt it costs much for a 5 BR house in dirranbandi.

SOB

so then house prices AREN'T as high in the country as they are in the cities???

Yes they are. Dirranbandi is an extreme as is st ives in sydney. What are you attempting to do?

SOB

How so??...you claimed that house prices were similarly expensive in both the city and the country.
I showed you that Cootamundra (where I live) is considerably cheaper than Sydney...so how is Dirranbandi as 'extreme' as St Ives??

You can buy a 5 bedroom house in Dirranbandi for $195,000, and a 5 bedroom house in St Ives is over $1,000,000...

Dirranbandi is only 1/10 the price of St Ives..So far cheaper to buy in Dirranbandi than in St Ives..

The most expensive house here in Coota (or surrounding areas) is less than half a million...and that's for 5+ bedrooms and all the bells and whistles, a friend of mines son is looking to buy his unit in Western Sydney (2 bedrooms, I think) for about $300K..

you completely ignored the other part of my sentence about extremes. That is dishonest.

1/2 a million is too much for a house IMO and its the same price as the suburbs of the cities.

SOB

Actually I didn't ignore your other part of the sentence about extremes..
Extreme would be those house houses in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane that sell for several MILLION dollars, or those houses that the banks sell (usually foreclosures) for the price of a family car...neither is really applicable.

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #95 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:47pm

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

rusty, I was referring to his promise for a large scale public housing program.
Something like that would have been a much better GFC response than any of the cash splashes or the BER which was such a rip-off.

The BER was again designed to help out the property sector by giving building companies more corporate welfare. It had no effect of building any education revolution. Had they used that money to fix a whole lot of public schools in desperate need of repairs then you could argue it was a good use of money.

Labor are a bunch of f.cking idiots who are bad at managing money and making the poor become poorer Sad

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In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

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JC Denton

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #96 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 3:29pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 9:30am:

JC Denton wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:19am:

wow you managed to get a house at $98,000. nobody could do that anymore.

A friend of mine bought a 2 bedroom house for $92,000 in October last year.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5522472249_0364f0672f.jpg

yep.

i'm also not talking about places out in book book or MUMBIL, gizmo.

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #97 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 3:59pm

JC Denton wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 3:29pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:09am:

gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 9:30am:

JC Denton wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:19am:

wow you managed to get a house at $98,000. nobody could do that anymore.

A friend of mine bought a 2 bedroom house for $92,000 in October last year.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5011/5522472249_0364f0672f.jpg

yep.

i'm also not talking about places out in book book or MUMBIL, gizmo.

I know...but Cootamundra isn't Book Book..or Mumbil

We've got a population, in town, of 5, 579 people, 2 supermarkets, a library, and an airport, a swimming pool, 6 pubs and 2 clubs...plus we're one of the major stops on the Sydney-Melbourne XPT route.

They're even talking (not very seriously), of putting in a traffic light...someday!!!!!

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling. Reply #98 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 4:44pm cootamundras alright actually. one of the better rural towns of its size range. not comparable to genuine sh1t places like wellington.
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Bobby.

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #99 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 5:09pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

rusty, I was referring to his promise for a large scale public housing program.
Something like that would have been a much better GFC response than any of the cash splashes or the BER which was such a rip-off.

The BER was again designed to help out the property sector by giving building companies more corporate welfare. It had no effect of building any education revolution. Had they used that money to fix a whole lot of public schools in desperate need of repairs then you could argue it was a good use of money.

Labor are a bunch of f.cking idiots who are bad at managing money and making the poor become poorer Sad

Hear hear Nail,

Labor cannot manage money.

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John Smith

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #100 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 6:42pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

rusty, I was referring to his promise for a large scale public housing program.
Something like that would have been a much better GFC response than any of the cash splashes or the BER which was such a rip-off.

The BER was again designed to help out the property sector by giving building companies more corporate welfare. It had no effect of building any education revolution. Had they used that money to fix a whole lot of public schools in desperate need of repairs then you could argue it was a good use of money.

Labor are a bunch of f.cking idiots who are bad at managing money and making the poor become poorer Sad

The BER was designed to help out the building sector, not the property sector. There is a difference.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #101 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:03pm

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:59pm:

It seems to me that it is both incumbent on a society from an ethical view and necessary for social cohesion that housing should be available to those for whom the market does not provide the solution.
The market does a good job allocating housing to those with various levels of income sufficient to purchase or rent according to their means. But we have many people in this country who will always be unable or at certain times will be unable to get into that market.
That is one reason we have a state. Unfortunately the state has for several decades concerned itself all too often with allocating resources to those who in all truth don't need it's assistance. We call it middle class welfare, which may be in the form of direct grants or over-generous tax relief.
For that and other reasons the state has defaulted on the housing responsibility, not that it has ever been a strong priority in this country.
PM Rudd made a promise to tackle this issue but we all know what happened to that. But this has been the only serious attention paid to the issue in a long long time.
At some point, a government will have to address it because it will only get worse. Access to reasonable housing is the first essential step to ensuring that the underbelly doesn't take over the whole social body.

so your idea is that if you cant afford a house then the govt should give you one? so the rest of use have to pay for two homes instead of one?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #102 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:05pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

rusty, I was referring to his promise for a large scale public housing program.
Something like that would have been a much better GFC response than any of the cash splashes or the BER which was such a rip-off.

The BER was again designed to help out the property sector by giving building companies more corporate welfare. It had no effect of building any education revolution. Had they used that money to fix a whole lot of public schools in desperate need of repairs then you could argue it was a good use of money.

Labor are a bunch of f.cking idiots who are bad at managing money and making the poor become poorer Sad

The BER was designed to help out the building sector, not the property sector. There is a difference.

perhaps they could have had them building things that were actually value for money and not just one thing - school buildings. its like the insulation fiasco. 100 industries to support and Rudd picks on just ONE. and then ruins it for years to come.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #103 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:03pm:

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 1:59pm:

It seems to me that it is both incumbent on a society from an ethical view and necessary for social cohesion that housing should be available to those for whom the market does not provide the solution.
The market does a good job allocating housing to those with various levels of income sufficient to purchase or rent according to their means. But we have many people in this country who will always be unable or at certain times will be unable to get into that market.
That is one reason we have a state. Unfortunately the state has for several decades concerned itself all too often with allocating resources to those who in all truth don't need it's assistance. We call it middle class welfare, which may be in the form of direct grants or over-generous tax relief.
For that and other reasons the state has defaulted on the housing responsibility, not that it has ever been a strong priority in this country.
PM Rudd made a promise to tackle this issue but we all know what happened to that. But this has been the only serious attention paid to the issue in a long long time.
At some point, a government will have to address it because it will only get worse. Access to reasonable housing is the first essential step to ensuring that the underbelly doesn't take over the whole social body.

so your idea is that if you cant afford a house then the govt should give you one? so the rest of use have to pay for two homes instead of one?

I don't disagree with that ... everyone should have a roof over their head.

What the govts. need to do is get rid of the tenants in dept. of housing as soon as they are in a position to join the free market and leave dept. housing free for those that need it. As it is you get lifetime tenants no matter how well off they are. I remember one house in particular i worked in, he had a new 4x4 for the wife, a newish merc for himself, he worked as General Manager of a club, wife worked in a legal office ... very good income, no kids, and lived in housing commission. Meanwhile the single mum had to wait 10 yrs.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: Housing Remains Unaffordable - Many Struggling.
Reply #104 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:47pm:

hadrian_now wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

rusty, I was referring to his promise for a large scale public housing program.
Something like that would have been a much better GFC response than any of the cash splashes or the BER which was such a rip-off.

The BER was again designed to help out the property sector by giving building companies more corporate welfare. It had no effect of building any education revolution. Had they used that money to fix a whole lot of public schools in desperate need of repairs then you could argue it was a good use of money.

Labor are a bunch of f.cking idiots who are bad at managing money and making the poor become poorer Sad

The BER was designed to help out the building sector, not the property sector. There is a difference.

perhaps they could have had them building things that were actually value for money and not just one thing - school buildings. its like the insulation fiasco. 100 industries to support and Rudd picks on just ONE. and then ruins it for years to come.

such as? I know, how about an airport for the miners, or a railway exclusively for Palmers use.

no matter where they spend the money someone will always whinge. BER and insulation programmes did what they set out to do. They were a sucess in every way measurable in over 90% of cases.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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