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HillSux Church the Money Machine (Read 32232 times)
Bobby.
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #165 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:42pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 2:00pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 12:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 11:42am:
Longy,
[quote]you dont even know what the bible teaches on prosperity or even what prosperity is.


Maybe you could explain it to me?



I still don't understand the prosperity message -
why won't our resident Bible thumper - Longweekend - explain it?


Yeh I'd like to hear him explain it in his own words but I suspect one word would explain it.

Greed


Nail,
I think I can explain it.
If you give a lot of money to Hillsong you not only
get a gold pass to heaven - you will get a new luxury car & a swimming pool.



Quote:
Protons have mass?!? I didn't even know they were Catholic.


Woody Allen
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« Last Edit: Feb 23rd, 2013 at 3:54pm by Bobby. »  
 
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longweekend58
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #166 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 5:32pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 12:53pm:
Bobby. wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 11:42am:
Longy,
Quote:
you dont even know what the bible teaches on prosperity or even what prosperity is.


Maybe you could explain it to me?



I still don't understand the prosperity message -
why won't our resident Bible thumper - Longweekend - explain it?


because you dont really want to know what it is. all you want is yet another platform for abuse. If you were a decent and rational person who disagreed with my beliefs I would explain it to you but you are not such a person. You are an idiot and a troll without the capacity or integrity to understand anything toenail doesnt believe.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Karnal
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #167 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 5:41pm
 
Hey, Longy - I bet he gets his info from Wikipedia as well.
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longweekend58
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #168 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:09pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 5:41pm:
Hey, Longy - I bet he gets his info from Wikipedia as well.


i doubt it is that good.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Karnal
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #169 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:09pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 7:02am:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 3:54pm:
i'm quite interested in this if someone has a rational view.

sure you can take individual quotes out of the bible to say just about anything , but my reading of it would seem to reflect that the bible is really a story of

1  suffering
2  triumph through love
3  getting priorities right in that love is more important than possessions.

now the whole message of hillsong and many of the new pentecostal churches isnt prosperity but a significant part of it is.
i find little evidence for this in their doctrinal texts.
have i misinterpreted what i have read or are people rationalising to try and make themselves "have their cake and eat it too"

re the allegation that the dalai llama is not holy or likes his goodies as well , i reject that.
i think you will find that the buddhist monks take their belief in simple living very seriously.
if anyone has any evidence that the dalai has a massive trust fund or share portfolio, post away but i doubt you will find one Wink Wink


i very rarely bump my own posts, always seemed a weird thing to do.
i have put this question to a lot of evangelicals and as is the case here, am met with deafening silence.
i think the idea of whether christianity is to be aligned with a life of consumerism  or a life of charity is at the core of where christianity (and maybe the world) is to head.

from my talks to evangelicals, they see the earthly satisfaction of desires
consumerism
materialism
sex
fame
waelth
as part of their religious creed.

the buddha and jesus, seemed to teach the exact opposite
that consumerism, wealth and ego were all potent blockers to forward movement on a spiritual journey.

i think this is something that not just hillsong but all the new materialistic religions need to reflect on.
it seems that all the great divine teachers of the past, taught a very different message. not hard to hoodwink the congregation when you are selling a message like this. martin luther would be rolling in his grave. Wink


A lot of this prosperity doctrine is overrated, and I think Hillsong has stepped back from it somewhat.

When Brian Huston released a book about wealth a few years back, Tim Costello contacted him and expressed his views. I’ve heard Brian Huston agreed and came around to the belief that Christianity is not about wealth at all.

At one point, Huston was very taken with Amerikan evangelism - much of it based on the black churches and their faith in the church to pull people out of poverty. During the 1980s and 90s, this belief spread through the white televised ministries and formed much of what we understand as mass pentacostalism today.

However, the essence of their teachings is that the Holy Spirit works miracles - just as it did on the day of Pentacost when the early Christian Jews started speaking in their different respective languages, or "tongues".

Many converts to Hillsong are, however, what we understand as "aspirational". It’s a middle class suburban movement with a lot of first generation immigrants. The church has its biggest growth not in poor communities, but countries with an expanding middle class, like China and  Eastern European and Latin American countries.

Like the blacks in the early Pentacostal movement, and like the Chinese and Eastern Europeans today, respectability, material and social aspiration are extremely important.

Hillsong does not preach overt consumerism, but yes, it does practice it. The fashions, the cars people drive to "church", and the focus on fundraising - a focus in most growing religious movements - are all there. They just don’t preach it anymore.

But they sure as hell practice it.
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damien
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #170 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:12pm
 
Who is this "Huston" you keep referring to?

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The Coalition won!! Now get over it!!
 
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corporate_whitey
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #171 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:13pm
 
Unbelieving Infidels do not even  shy away from using the name of the Lord to turn a profit...This is just satanic...dont they know they will account for this sin on Judgment day? Tongue
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World Wide Working Class Struggle
 
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longweekend58
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #172 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:17pm
 
Karnal wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:09pm:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 7:02am:
aquascoot wrote on Feb 22nd, 2013 at 3:54pm:
i'm quite interested in this if someone has a rational view.

sure you can take individual quotes out of the bible to say just about anything , but my reading of it would seem to reflect that the bible is really a story of

1  suffering
2  triumph through love
3  getting priorities right in that love is more important than possessions.

now the whole message of hillsong and many of the new pentecostal churches isnt prosperity but a significant part of it is.
i find little evidence for this in their doctrinal texts.
have i misinterpreted what i have read or are people rationalising to try and make themselves "have their cake and eat it too"

re the allegation that the dalai llama is not holy or likes his goodies as well , i reject that.
i think you will find that the buddhist monks take their belief in simple living very seriously.
if anyone has any evidence that the dalai has a massive trust fund or share portfolio, post away but i doubt you will find one Wink Wink


i very rarely bump my own posts, always seemed a weird thing to do.
i have put this question to a lot of evangelicals and as is the case here, am met with deafening silence.
i think the idea of whether christianity is to be aligned with a life of consumerism  or a life of charity is at the core of where christianity (and maybe the world) is to head.

from my talks to evangelicals, they see the earthly satisfaction of desires
consumerism
materialism
sex
fame
waelth
as part of their religious creed.

the buddha and jesus, seemed to teach the exact opposite
that consumerism, wealth and ego were all potent blockers to forward movement on a spiritual journey.

i think this is something that not just hillsong but all the new materialistic religions need to reflect on.
it seems that all the great divine teachers of the past, taught a very different message. not hard to hoodwink the congregation when you are selling a message like this. martin luther would be rolling in his grave. Wink


A lot of this prosperity doctrine is overrated, and I think Hillsong has stepped back from it somewhat.

When Brian Huston released a book about wealth a few years back, Tim Costello contacted him and expressed his views. I’ve heard Brian Huston agreed and came around to the belief that Christianity is not about wealth at all.

At one point, Huston was very taken with Amerikan evangelism - much of it based on the black churches and their faith in the church to pull people out of poverty. During the 1980s and 90s, this belief spread through the white televised ministries and formed much of what we understand as mass pentacostalism today.

However, the essence of their teachings is that the Holy Spirit works miracles - just as it did on the day of Pentacost when the early Christian Jews started speaking in their different respective languages, or "tongues".

Many converts to Hillsong are, however, what we understand as "aspirational". It’s a middle class suburban movement with a lot of first generation immigrants. The church has its biggest growth not in poor communities, but countries with an expanding middle class, like China and  Eastern European and Latin American countries.

Like the blacks in the early Pentacostal movement, and like the Chinese and Eastern Europeans today, respectability, material and social aspiration are extremely important.

Hillsong does not preach overt consumerism, but yes, it does practice it. The fashions, the cars people drive to "church", and the focus on fundraising - a focus in most growing religious movements - are all there. They just don’t preach it anymore.

But they sure as hell practice it.


Pentecostals have been around well over a century. your timeline is quite wrong. but whle you are bagging such things keep in mind that these are the same people performing the large social welfare programs that their detractors avoid like the plague.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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corporate_whitey
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #173 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:41pm
 
The Pentecostal movement are a Satanic cult and their profits do not go to helping the needy any more than any  other Satanic profit based Corporation... Smiley
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World Wide Working Class Struggle
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #174 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:48pm
 
damien wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:12pm:
Who is this "Huston" you keep referring to?



Brian Houston is the senior Pastor at Hillsong Church..


(on a personal note, I met him years ago in Sydney. I didn't like him as a person, or as a Pastor then, and see no reason to change my mind now)
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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longweekend58
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #175 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:50pm
 
gizmo_2655 wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:48pm:
damien wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:12pm:
Who is this "Huston" you keep referring to?



Brian Houston is the senior Pastor at Hillsong Church..


and he is the target of the lefties for just one reason.

he is successful and wealthy.

thats all it takes for a leftie to be jealous.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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JC Denton
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #176 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:57pm
 
being a minister of a church is something you get 'wealthy' in?
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corporate_whitey
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #177 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 7:03pm
 
Only if you serve the beast, the false prohet and the  harlot... Tongue
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World Wide Working Class Struggle
 
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gizmo_2655
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #178 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 7:07pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:57pm:
being a minister of a church is something you get 'wealthy' in?


If you use the televangelist model...yes. 'praise the Lord, and Pass your Wallet'.
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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat
 
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longweekend58
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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #179 - Feb 23rd, 2013 at 7:11pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Feb 23rd, 2013 at 6:57pm:
being a minister of a church is something you get 'wealthy' in?


he is a writer of some note having sold several million books. he is also a sought after speaker who is paid well for it. Thats how he got wealthy. BTW the church pays him nothing at all.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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