Australian Politics Forum - HillSux Church the Money Machine

Emma

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #60 - Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:23pm

as a youngun .. in Bris... Like teens ... OK? -mid 70's !!

my boyfriend and I were accosted as we walked past a doorway leading upstairs, above a shop in Albert St (?) anyway,, still mid CBD Bris... ( we were both wearing tie-dye .. I had a long wraparound skirt)

a youngish person, .. bit like us, (I noticed his eyes particularly) .. asked us if we were interested in learning more about ourselves..
our real personalities.... selves ???
- we could have a free 'PERSONALITY ASSESSMENT'... all we had to do was go upstairs and answer q's ..on a 'personality assessment' questionnaire.

My friend, who was a trusting soul was yeah OK... why not??

I didn't like it at all, so ..... no mate, its a bs con... not interested thanks anyway...

bugger !! could have been a biggie in Scientology by now.!!! Grin

Some yrs later, in diff circumstances ,.. met a young man,..played guitar real good ...and sang about Jesus.!!

Had those same eyes..!!!!.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #61 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:29am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 6:09pm:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 11:53am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 11:07am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 8:39am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 8:30am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 8:07am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 7:44am:

ACA??? please... that stopped being decent journalism and is now on a par with TT which does reports on 'free energy machines' and the like.

Hillsong gets press like this because it is big - the biggest in australia and because its musice division is the biggest in the world. Did you know that Hillsong has more gold albums than any australian performer in history? And of corses there is all that 'feed the poor' stuff that never gets mentioned.

if you want to know where their money goes then ask for their financial reports. They are actually available. Try that with most other multi-million dollar companies.

true they do spend a LITTLE bit of money on outreach programs. not nearly as much as the catholic church i might add.i dont like prosperity christianity and consider it a heresy.
there is also the churn factor with hillsong, they do tend to churn people through as true believers followed by truely disenchanted.
are they an evil organisation...not really, no more evil then the public service which pretends to be serving the public but is actually serving its own intersts.

and at least donating to hillsong is voluntary, unlike our political "hillsongs" who would jail you if you dont cough up for their evil programs Wink

hillsong: 40,000 members. Catholic Church: 1B members.

as for the rest... it's just made-up nonsense

where did you pull those figures from, the streetvans that serve the homeless in the cbd of brisbane are nearly all run by the salvos and st vinnies.
i would also add the 7th day adventists are pretty good and will provide free weet bix and so good to any poor people turning up at their factory in brisbane.

hillsong target young disillusioned teenagers , this seems more a recruiting drive than anything.
i havent heard of them under the story bridge with the cask wine and metho drinkers.

i havent seen a lot od cask wine and metho drinkers at their services either.
they seem to be extremely well groomed and dripping in jewelry.

and attaching cinemas, day cares and coffee shops to your mega church.

are they a religious organization or are they an offshoot of westfield Wink

then you are clearly quite uninformed. in fact, it seems that most of your posts on this topic are nothing more than you opinion based on a few articles and a few stray comments from people. Fact is, Hillsong and the like do a great deal of social welfare but even then, that is not the point. Where do you get off criticising a church because it doesnt do as much as another?

most of your posts are dopey and this is no exception.

IN THE WORDS OF SAINT THOMAS

until my eyes see it, i will not believe.
and i deal with plenty of poor people (1000's) and they invariably go to the salvos and vinnies for help.

i suppose they could go raid brian houstons rubbish bins and see if there are any scraps of caviar or half drunk bottles of grange hermitage Wink

so your entire argument is that hillsong is bad because salvos do more? that's it???

by your argument hillsong does more than you therefore you are bad.

well no,
1 you dont know what i do Wink

2 i pay 100's of 1000's in tax which mite help some of the poor. i'd imagine brian houston and his barbie doll wife earn about the same but pay virtually nothing Wink

3 hillsong should recieve a tax deduction for their charitable works (fully documented).
if brian wants to be a motivational speaker and preach "prosperity christianity' (a heresy that says god has blessed the rich and wants them to be richer still), he is operating outside of a reliogion and should be fully taxed on his earnings from sales of cd's etc etc.

please document their spend on charities and their total income.
you do know brian's father in new zealand is in jail.
do you deny that brian owns a lot of real estate and please tell me how much realestate jesus aquired in jerusalem back in ad 30 (when he wasnt driving the money makers out of his temple) Wink

A) i doubt very much your claim to paying so much tax per year
B) Brian pays income tax just like everyone else does
C) his father is deceased

if u get that much wrong then pretty much everythign else you say can be safely discarded as well.

So basically since you have been wrong several times then nothing you say is worth listening to either? Good to know . . . . .

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #62 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:30am

Emma wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

oh good
Gretchen and Roberta have gone again...

wasted space ...they are. !!

Got dropped on their heads as kids perhaps.

I lost the Forum just before,... so'll read the rest of the posts ....

But -- I really think Longing supporting Hillscum is a bit much... and his arguments??? lala land.

Actually im not surprised. In fact i bet he is pentacostal rather than catholic.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26508 Australia	Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine Reply #63 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:40am JC Denton wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 8:52pm: the salvos are assholes, never give money to charity ever. @ least not to the salvos - i discovered they are arseholes a long time ago and now when i donate to any charity i research them first. If i cant get any information i dont give to them. SOB
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #64 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 5:42am

Emma wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 10:23pm:

as a youngun .. in Bris... Like teens ... OK? -mid 70's !!

my boyfriend and I were accosted as we walked past a doorway leading upstairs, above a shop in Albert St (?) anyway,, still mid CBD Bris... ( we were both wearing tie-dye .. I had a long wraparound skirt)

a youngish person, .. bit like us, (I noticed his eyes particularly) .. asked us if we were interested in learning more about ourselves..
our real personalities.... selves ???
- we could have a free 'PERSONALITY ASSESSMENT'... all we had to do was go upstairs and answer q's ..on a 'personality assessment' questionnaire.

My friend, who was a trusting soul was yeah OK... why not??

I didn't like it at all, so ..... no mate, its a bs con... not interested thanks anyway...

bugger !! could have been a biggie in Scientology by now.!!! Grin

Some yrs later, in diff circumstances ,.. met a young man,..played guitar real good ...and sang about Jesus.!!

Had those same eyes..!!!!.

Haha a group of us actually went in. They gave us the "lie detector" thing and told us we needed more "therapy". It killed the time between sessions. I wonder if i saw you around in those days?

SOB

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aquascoot

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #65 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 9:44pm:

The_Barnacle wrote on Feb 19^th, 2013 at 9:21pm:

Hillsong does not attract secular people or atheists. It attracts those people who are already religious but are easily suggestible (which it could be said that all religious people are). It is because we live in a secular society that organisations such as Hillsong and the Catholic Church can be exposed.

In my experience the most gullible are those who have had no religious experience or training at all and succumb to Somethings-missing-itis. They usually 'discover' god through a charismatic street ranter or a friend who has previously 'found god' through a charismatic street ranter... And they're off.

Intelligent interpretation of religious scripture is usually beyond them such that religious rhetoric, metaphors and literally eloquent turns of phrase brew in their minds over a few weeks till, soon enough, they're chanting at the 'club' or in the streets with the maddest, while practicing talking in tongues, evangelizing and 'getting good with god' in readiness for the 'rapture' - including booking their pets in advance into 'pet hotels' because, as we all know, in heaven after the rapture... No pets allowed.

a bit of both i think north,

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.
its GREAT for people (especially young people) to be part of something bigger than themselves and brian houston is a very good (ACTUALLY EXCELLENT) motivational speaker and MORE than capable of making great money in this field (and paying a bit of tax).

should he be using the bible to do this. its a great segway into the area of indoctrination.
again, i think this all grew thru americas desire to marry capitalism with christianity.
not everyone wants to be mother teresa and live with lepers (BUT THAT IS WHAT THE GOOD BOOK TELLS YOU).

i think some of americas most influential books

"the power of positive thinking"
and "think and grow rich" were written by norman vincent peale who was a pastor.

and as i have said before, 50 % of anglican ministers say privately , they dont believe in an afterlife. so they , too, are just preaching a form of modern pop psychology.
the difference is, brian and hillsong, just do it so much better Wink

the endorphins that flow at a hillsong congregation, the smoke, the rock music, the energy, the feel good factor,
christ Cheesy

, that must surely beat a game of golf on a sunday morning.

i cant actually see why the secular motivational speakers cant organize something just as inspiring and feel good on a similar scale.

hang on, they have, football, music festivals,

now lets have something a bit deeper that speaks to the spirit Wink

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #66 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:49am

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

That can be said of many institutions other than neo-Christian ones. Do large corporations not pretend to primarily have your welfare at heart when really, of course, its profit (/prophet??!!) that drives their motivation?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.

That's an unjustified comparison. You can't seriously believe that Hillsong is analogous to Nazism.

As all clear thinking atheists must admit, the instinct to have (blind) faith in the reality of the 'avatars of the mythos' will always manifest in some. From my personal experience of those, the most likely to be acutely infected by an ersatz religiosity are those whose religious BS detector is undeveloped (i.e. who have no deep understanding of the religious as a result of early age indoctrination).

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« Last Edit: Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am by NorthOfNorth »

Conviction is the art of being certain

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longweekend58

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #67 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

That can be said of many institutions other than neo-Christian ones. Do large corporations not pretend to primarily have your welfare at heart when really, of course, its profit (/prophet??!!) that drives their motivation?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.

That's an unjustified comparison. You can't seriously believe that Hillsong is analogous to Nazism.

As all clear thinking atheists must admit, the instinct to have (blind) faith in the reality of the 'avatars of the mythos' will always manifest in some. From my personal experience of those, the most likely to be acutely infected by an ersatz religiosity are those whose religious BS detector is undeveloped (i.e. who have no deep understanding of the religious due to early age indoctrination).

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

oph and just for the record, I have long been on record as saying that tax exemptions for churches should be all but removed. I belive they cause more harm than good but i do not for a minute believ the claim that it is $31B per year. that is the equivalent of $31,000 PER ATTENDEE at churches. so that figure is beyond rubbish and in case you ahdnt noticed, whenever this topic is raised there is a mountain of rubbish that suddenly appears cloudling the issue.

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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine Reply #68 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:00am longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am: this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored. Not at all. The rest of his post I'd agree with.
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longweekend58

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #69 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:13am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

Not at all. The rest of his post I'd agree with.

the point is that when u make such obvious and massive errors in fact, it casts doubt on the rst of your post.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #70 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:14am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 9:13am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 8:00am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

Not at all. The rest of his post I'd agree with.

the point is that when u make such obvious and massive errors in fact, it casts doubt on the rst of your post.

No only from overly judgemental ppl like you who dont want to hear original or differing ideas

SOB

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Sir lastnail

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #71 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

That can be said of many institutions other than neo-Christian ones. Do large corporations not pretend to primarily have your welfare at heart when really, of course, its profit (/prophet??!!) that drives their motivation?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.

That's an unjustified comparison. You can't seriously believe that Hillsong is analogous to Nazism.

As all clear thinking atheists must admit, the instinct to have (blind) faith in the reality of the 'avatars of the mythos' will always manifest in some. From my personal experience of those, the most likely to be acutely infected by an ersatz religiosity are those whose religious BS detector is undeveloped (i.e. who have no deep understanding of the religious due to early age indoctrination).

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

oph and just for the record, I have long been on record as saying that tax exemptions for churches should be all but removed. I belive they cause more harm than good but i do not for a minute believ the claim that it is $31B per year. that is the equivalent of $31,000 PER ATTENDEE at churches. so that figure is beyond rubbish and in case you ahdnt noticed, whenever this topic is raised there is a mountain of rubbish that suddenly appears cloudling the issue.

bullshit you never said that at all. you always defended churches and said they paid tax just like anyone else. Changed your tune have you ??

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longweekend58

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #72 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:47am

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

That can be said of many institutions other than neo-Christian ones. Do large corporations not pretend to primarily have your welfare at heart when really, of course, its profit (/prophet??!!) that drives their motivation?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.

That's an unjustified comparison. You can't seriously believe that Hillsong is analogous to Nazism.

As all clear thinking atheists must admit, the instinct to have (blind) faith in the reality of the 'avatars of the mythos' will always manifest in some. From my personal experience of those, the most likely to be acutely infected by an ersatz religiosity are those whose religious BS detector is undeveloped (i.e. who have no deep understanding of the religious due to early age indoctrination).

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

oph and just for the record, I have long been on record as saying that tax exemptions for churches should be all but removed. I belive they cause more harm than good but i do not for a minute believ the claim that it is $31B per year. that is the equivalent of $31,000 PER ATTENDEE at churches. so that figure is beyond rubbish and in case you ahdnt noticed, whenever this topic is raised there is a mountain of rubbish that suddenly appears cloudling the issue.

bullshit you never said that at all. you always defended churches and said they paid tax just like anyone else. Changed your tune have you ??

Church BUSINESSES dimwit. they pay tax like everyone else. Churches themselves have tax concessions.

try and keep up.

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Sir lastnail

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #73 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:52am

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

That can be said of many institutions other than neo-Christian ones. Do large corporations not pretend to primarily have your welfare at heart when really, of course, its profit (/prophet??!!) that drives their motivation?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.

That's an unjustified comparison. You can't seriously believe that Hillsong is analogous to Nazism.

As all clear thinking atheists must admit, the instinct to have (blind) faith in the reality of the 'avatars of the mythos' will always manifest in some. From my personal experience of those, the most likely to be acutely infected by an ersatz religiosity are those whose religious BS detector is undeveloped (i.e. who have no deep understanding of the religious due to early age indoctrination).

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

oph and just for the record, I have long been on record as saying that tax exemptions for churches should be all but removed. I belive they cause more harm than good but i do not for a minute believ the claim that it is $31B per year. that is the equivalent of $31,000 PER ATTENDEE at churches. so that figure is beyond rubbish and in case you ahdnt noticed, whenever this topic is raised there is a mountain of rubbish that suddenly appears cloudling the issue.

bullshit you never said that at all. you always defended churches and said they paid tax just like anyone else. Changed your tune have you ??

Church BUSINESSES dimwit. they pay tax like everyone else. Churches themselves have tax concessions.

try and keep up.

what the hell is a church business ??

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longweekend58

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Re: HillSux Church the Money Machine
Reply #74 - Feb 20^th, 2013 at 12:14pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Sir lastnail wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

longweekend58 wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:49am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

let me go on the record and say i am NOT that opposed to hillsong.
only to it pretending to be something its not.

That can be said of many institutions other than neo-Christian ones. Do large corporations not pretend to primarily have your welfare at heart when really, of course, its profit (/prophet??!!) that drives their motivation?

aquascoot wrote on Feb 20^th, 2013 at 7:06am:

as an example, i came across a group of christian surfers at noosa one day, praying on the beach , surfing together, great looking kids, almostlooked like a gathering of the "hitler youth" in 1935.
note the hillsong congregations also do the nazi salute with the raised arms in the air.

That's an unjustified comparison. You can't seriously believe that Hillsong is analogous to Nazism.

As all clear thinking atheists must admit, the instinct to have (blind) faith in the reality of the 'avatars of the mythos' will always manifest in some. From my personal experience of those, the most likely to be acutely infected by an ersatz religiosity are those whose religious BS detector is undeveloped (i.e. who have no deep understanding of the religious due to early age indoctrination).

this is why the rest of aquascoots commentary on hillsong can be safely ignored.

oph and just for the record, I have long been on record as saying that tax exemptions for churches should be all but removed. I belive they cause more harm than good but i do not for a minute believ the claim that it is $31B per year. that is the equivalent of $31,000 PER ATTENDEE at churches. so that figure is beyond rubbish and in case you ahdnt noticed, whenever this topic is raised there is a mountain of rubbish that suddenly appears cloudling the issue.

bullshit you never said that at all. you always defended churches and said they paid tax just like anyone else. Changed your tune have you ??

Church BUSINESSES dimwit. they pay tax like everyone else. Churches themselves have tax concessions.

try and keep up.

what the hell is a church business ??

are u serious? after 45million posts on this topic? a chuch busines is *shock horror* a business owned bay a church. I think even SOB could get that. (well actually no, he wouldnt, but everybody else would)

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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