Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom (Read 3773 times)
chicken_lipsforme
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7090
Townsville NQ
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #45 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:00pm
 
athos wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:45am:
John Smith wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:43am:
So he's not doing it because he's concerned about the welfare of Australia, he just see's it as his 'get out of jail free' card. Why would anyone want him representing them?


I guess to promote democracy and freedom of speech in Australia and the world.

All Aussies should vote for him.


He has a snowflakes chance in hell of that ever happening.
He needs to get out from underneath Equador's skirts, man up, and face his accusers in Sweden and stop this charade.
There are two females their awaiting justice.
Back to top
 

"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
IP Logged
 
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #46 - Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:52pm
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:00pm:
athos wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:45am:
John Smith wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:43am:
So he's not doing it because he's concerned about the welfare of Australia, he just see's it as his 'get out of jail free' card. Why would anyone want him representing them?


I guess to promote democracy and freedom of speech in Australia and the world.

All Aussies should vote for him.


He has a snowflakes chance in hell of that ever happening.
He needs to get out from underneath Equador's skirts, man up, and face his accusers in Sweden and stop this charade.
There are two females their awaiting justice.


The Swedes have not charged Assange with any offence

they wish to speak to him

And apparently Assange has offered them his time whilst in England, but for some strange reason they WANT Assange in Sweden which has an extradition treaty with the USA

What do you think Assange is guilty of/

Do you think Bush. Blair or Howard are guilty of anything?
Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
JC Denton
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 5471
Gender: female
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #47 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 12:22am
 
swedish rape laws

its probably considered rape in sweden to look at a woman in a way she doesnt like

sweden is a demented country and  good on assange for trying to evade whatever nutjob laws they have there and are holding him up to (in the most dodgy of circumstances, of course)
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Spot of Borg
Gold Member
*****
Offline


WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26512
Australia
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #48 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:43am
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:00pm:
athos wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:45am:
John Smith wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:43am:
So he's not doing it because he's concerned about the welfare of Australia, he just see's it as his 'get out of jail free' card. Why would anyone want him representing them?


I guess to promote democracy and freedom of speech in Australia and the world.

All Aussies should vote for him.


He has a snowflakes chance in hell of that ever happening.
He needs to get out from underneath Equador's skirts, man up, and face his accusers in Sweden and stop this charade.
There are two females their awaiting justice.


You obviously havent read up on that. They are an obvious setup.

SOB
Back to top
 

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a 
Moron!
- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope
WWW PoliticsAneReligion  
IP Logged
 
Ex Dame Pansi
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 24168
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #49 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:36am
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:52pm:
The Swedes have not charged Assange with any offence

they wish to speak to him

And apparently Assange has offered them his time whilst in England, but for some strange reason they WANT Assange in Sweden which has an extradition treaty with the USA

What do you think Assange is guilty of/

Do you think Bush. Blair or Howard are guilty of anything?





What amazes me and many others I presume, is that Sweden can send a delegate to Australia to discuss Assange, but they can't send someone to the UK to question him.

I wouldn't get sucked into their web of deceit either. For Assange, going to Sweden would be paramount to going straight to Fort Meade.

Bob Carr has made such a fool of himself and the government regarding Assange and prisoner X. Lies, more damn lies Bob.

Shame on Australia for being a gutless yank puppet.

Back to top
 

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #50 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 7:26am
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:52pm:
but for some strange reason they WANT Assange in Sweden which has an extradition treaty with the USA

The UK has an extradition treaty with the US.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
athos
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Re-educate barbarians

Posts: 6406
Hong Kong
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #51 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 7:46am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:36am:
Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:52pm:
The Swedes have not charged Assange with any offence

they wish to speak to him

And apparently Assange has offered them his time whilst in England, but for some strange reason they WANT Assange in Sweden which has an extradition treaty with the USA

What do you think Assange is guilty of/

Do you think Bush. Blair or Howard are guilty of anything?





What amazes me and many others I presume, is that Sweden can send a delegate to Australia to discuss Assange, but they can't send someone to the UK to question him.

I wouldn't get sucked into their web of deceit either. For Assange, going to Sweden would be paramount to going straight to Fort Meade.

Bob Carr has made such a fool of himself and the government regarding Assange and prisoner X. Lies, more damn lies Bob.

Shame on Australia for being a gutless yank puppet.


British colony and a yank puppet what a misery.
Back to top
 

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
IP Logged
 
athos
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Re-educate barbarians

Posts: 6406
Hong Kong
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #52 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 7:58am
 
Chimp_Logic wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 8:40pm:
The 20th century saw the emergence of three major forms of fascism

1. Bolshevism
2. Nazism
3. Corporatism

The current fascist Corpocratic tyranny that has enslaved many peoples around the world is the most totalitarian system yet devised by humankind


But all three are originated from one place:

Back to top
 

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Dame Pansi
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 24168
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #53 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 9:07am
 

This is interesting, what's also interesting is that the link was supplied by Malcolm Turnbull via his twitter page.
................................................................................


Julian Assange: Swedish justice

Stefan Lindskog

Stefan Lindskog is a justice of the Supreme Court of Sweden, the highest court in that country.
The above is an extract from a speech titled  The Assange Affair: freedom of speech and freedom of information, a global perspective, which he will be giving at 7pm on April 3 at Elder Hall, University of Adelaide.

It has been reported in Swedish newspapers that Julian Assange fears that an extradition to Sweden may result in his subsequent extradition to the United States to face charges there. It has also been reported that Assange thinks he may be ­sentenced to death if convicted in the US.

It is amusing how the Assange case offers possibilities of sharp turns when it comes to topics to be discussed. From, on the one hand, whether lies about condoms can result in a sexual crime to, on the other, the question of if telling the truth, by publishing classified information, can amount to a crime permitting extradition to the state that claims being harmed.
Substantive issues

According to the Swedish act on extradition for criminal offences, a person present in Sweden, who in a foreign state is suspected of an act that is punishable there, may be extradited to that state.

Extradition is permitted, provided that the offence for which extradition is requested is equivalent to a crime punishable under Swedish law by imprisonment of at least one year. Thus, extradition requires (i) an offence punishable under the law of both countries (“dual criminality”) and (ii) that the offence is of a certain degree of ­seriousness.

But there are also other restrictions. Extradition may not be granted for military or political offences. Nor may extradition be granted if there is reason to fear that the person whose extradition is requested runs a risk of being subjected to persecution threatening his or her life, or freedom, or is serious in some other respect.

Nor may extradition be granted if it would be contrary to fundamental humanitarian principles, e.g. in consideration of a person’s youth, or the state of a person’s health.

Further, an extradition must not violate Sweden’s obligations under the European Convention.

However, according to bilateral or multi-lateral treaties and other legal instruments, extradition can take place on more – or less – strict or lenient legal grounds.

Between members of the European Union, the European Arrest Warrant requires each national judicial authority to recognise, ipso facto, and with a minimum of formalities, requests for the surrender of a person made by the judicial authority of another member state. That is why the courts in the UK did not really try the merits of a Swedish arrest warrant for Assange.
Procedures

If a person whose extradition is requested opposes extradition, it falls to the Supreme Court to examine whether extradition can be legally granted under the conditions laid down by law. The Supreme Court then delivers its opinion to the government for use in its examination of the case.

If the Supreme Court holds that there is any legal impediment to extradition, the government is not allowed to approve the request. The government can, however, refuse extradition even if the Supreme Court has not declared against it.

The reason for involving the Supreme Court is basically a variation of the blame game. It is convenient for the government to declare that the request for extradition must be denied because the Supreme Court has ordered so.
US extradition

As I have stated, there are some bilateral treaties on extradition. And there are such instruments between Sweden and the US. I will leave the technicalities aside but, in summary, the following is of special interest in this case:

a) The principle of dual criminality is ­applicable.

b) In respect of an extraditable offence committed outside the territorial jurisdiction of Sweden, extradition shall be granted only if the Swedish courts would be competent to exercise jurisdiction in similar circumstances.

c) Extradition shall not be granted when the offence is purely military.

d) Extradition shall not be granted if the offence in Sweden is regarded as political or connected with a political offence.
Relevant questions

Does Assange face a risk of being extradited?

I do not know what crime, if any, Assange’s involvement in the publishing of military and diplomatic documents would amount to, as regards to US law. I have read somewhere, though, that Assange may be charged for communicating national defence information to an unauthorised source, and aiding the enemy. That is, as I understand it, espionage or treason.

Now that raises some interesting ­questions.

The first question is: do we have an ­equivalent criminalisation in Sweden? Yes, certainly. But I think that the question should rather be put this way: is the offence for which extradition is requested a crime under Swedish law? Well, that could be debated. What is classified under US law is probably not classified under Swedish law. And enemies to the US may not be enemies to Sweden.

cont.
Back to top
 

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Dame Pansi
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 24168
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #54 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 9:09am
 
Thus, the question is if the principle of dual criminality shall be applied based on the actual circumstances (documents classified under US rules and aiding US enemies) or on an equivalent Swedish situation (documents classified under Swedish rules and aiding Swedish enemies).

Further: what about the source privilege? Under Swedish law, it is with some exceptions not punishable to leak classified information to the media. There is, however, an exception as regards Swedish military secrets. Is the source privilege applicable when it comes to extradition?

Yes, probably. If, for example, a leakage to the press of business secrets in another jurisdiction is regarded as a crime and extradition from Sweden is sought, the application should be denied – notwithstanding that such leakage, in general, is criminalised also in Sweden.

The source privilege takes over. But what about foreign military secrets? Is the ex­ception to the source privilege as regards military secrets applicable to only Swedish secrets or, in extradition cases, also to ­military secrets of the foreign state? There are further questions:

a) Do you leak information to the enemy in a legal sense when you leak it to the world at large?

b) It could also be asked if the offence is purely military or to be regarded as political.

Other questions could also be put. But I restrict myself to these queries and put them to you for your consideration.
Principles that govern

It is obvious that globalisation demands well-organised and far-reaching co-operation between states in order to efficiently fight cross-border crimes.

But co-operation means you must, in large measure, trust authorities in other jurisdictions. These are sensitive issues. They concern the rule of law.

During my years as a practising lawyer I learned to mistrust any organisation, including the state. When people come together and think of themselves as united with a ­special task or goal, astonishing dynamics can cause strange things to happen. Thus, I think that one shall not presume that the state, or any part of it, is always good. If anything should be presumed at all, it is to the ­contrary. It is sometimes necessary to view the different authorities of the state as heads of a vicious Hydra. You have to be attentive and to be prepared to fight the evil that a misled intent to do well can result in.

Now, if a foreign authority wants anything, you should be even more aware. Why? Not because other states are even more wicked than your own – I guess they are more or less the same. But because, when a state acts outside its borders, the presumption is – plainly put – that it shall mind its own business.

That applies to extradition, I think, especially when it comes to crimes that are not directed against individuals, but against the state. Generally, in my opinion a state that claims to have been offended – and therefore applies for extradition of the purported persecutor – should not be helped out. This is also, to a certain extent, reflected in Swedish legislation – including the agreements between the US and Sweden – in that extradition shall not be granted when the alleged crime is military or political in nature.
Leaked information

At the end of the day, many years from now, I think Assange will not, even in Sweden, be associated with his efforts to escape the laws of Sweden. He will be thought of as the person who made public some pieces of classified information to the benefit of mankind.

Crimes against humanity such as the [WikiLeaks images of Iraqi civilians being killed in a] helicopter shooting need to be made known. The good made by leakage of such information cannot be underestimated. It should never be a crime to make crimes of state known.

But leaks of that kind need not only facilitators like Assange. They also need conscientious brave men and women like Bradley Manning. Let us not forget him. Let us hope and pray that he will have a fair trial and ­balanced sentence. I cannot judge to what extent leakage of all the documents was ­ethically defendable. But I strongly hold that part of the leak was to the good of society and should not be punished.

http://www.afr.com/p/lifestyle/review/julian_assange_swedish_judge_view_UKXfH1Wo...
Back to top
 

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
IP Logged
 
Ex Dame Pansi
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 24168
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #55 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 10:45am
 
The free press are very quiet..........


Is that because

we don't have free press

we only have government controlled media?

What does democracy look like?


The three major parties must be wetting themselves with fear at the thought of some Wikileaks members in the senate.



WikiLeaks Party raises senate bid in Australia

WikiLeaks announced that Julian Assange was planning to run for a seat in the Australian senate a year ago. To be elected he must gather 15 per cent of the vote. Assange’s campaign director says he is currently polling at about 25 to 27 per cent.

http://rt.com/news/wikileaks-party-election-assange-433/

Ha! maybe people do want transparency in government.

Back to top
 

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....
 
IP Logged
 
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #56 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 10:49am
 
Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 7th, 2013 at 10:45am:
The free press are very quiet..........


Is that because

we don't have free press

we only have government controlled media?

What does democracy look like?


The three major parties must be wetting themselves with fear at the thought of some Wikileaks members in the senate.



WikiLeaks Party raises senate bid in Australia

WikiLeaks announced that Julian Assange was planning to run for a seat in the Australian senate a year ago. To be elected he must gather 15 per cent of the vote. Assange’s campaign director says he is currently polling at about 25 to 27 per cent.

http://rt.com/news/wikileaks-party-election-assange-433/

Ha! maybe people do want transparency in government.



"As long as the media is run as a business, it can never be free"


(K. Marx)
Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
Chimp_Logic
Gold Member
*****
Offline


πολιτικός

Posts: 4826
Mawson Base
Gender: male
Re: Assange’s senate seat a possible path to freedom
Reply #57 - Apr 7th, 2013 at 10:55am
 
chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 31st, 2013 at 11:00pm:
athos wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:45am:
John Smith wrote on Feb 19th, 2013 at 10:43am:
So he's not doing it because he's concerned about the welfare of Australia, he just see's it as his 'get out of jail free' card. Why would anyone want him representing them?


I guess to promote democracy and freedom of speech in Australia and the world.

All Aussies should vote for him.


He has a snowflakes chance in hell of that ever happening.
He needs to get out from underneath Equador's skirts, man up, and face his accusers in Sweden and stop this charade.
There are two females their awaiting justice.


that crack pot Senator Fielding, who is a creationist and religious fanatic, managed to get a senate seat with less than 8% of the vote.

Assange can run an INTERNET ONLY campaign and still romp it in.

I expect at least 2 Wikileaks candidates to be elected.

(and if the corporately owned mass media actually did its DEMOCRATIC job and gave the same exposure to ALL candidates rather than the standard two puppet major parties who are ideologically identical, then even more wikileaks candidates could be elected)

I await for your public apology to everyone in this thread, and your repentence for exhibiting a sub zero IQ level and a heartless carcass. Your Communist stance in here is utterly appalling
Back to top
 

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print