Australian Politics Forum - North Korea to nuke the Yanks

Cofgod Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 693 Bolton, Great Britain Gender:	Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks Reply #60 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:35am My brother's going on holiday to North Korea later this year.
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Chard

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #61 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:37am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 6:27pm:

Chard wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 12^th, 2013 at 4:56pm:

Chard wrote on Mar 12^th, 2013 at 6:09am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

Who's to say that the NKs haven't upgraded their subs to still be formidable weapons?

You can only upgrade so much before hard limits imposed by hull design and little to no experience with shipbuilding halt further progress. You can replace all the electronics, you can sock a few nukes aboard, but in the end you're still dealing with a second generation WWII German Type 21 and sinking those is something the US has quite a bit of experience with.

You can also change the hull design - put quieter propellers etc.
My bet is that they are modernised more than you think.

That's not changing the design. You're just replacing props. My point is that as old a design as the Romeo-class is tb ere is only so much that you can do to modernize it before you're forced to either buy or build an entirely new sub class.

Dear Chard,
On one hand you admit that the Yanks are following these subs because they are such a threat &

I've said no such thing. In fact I've made it clear that we track pretty much everything because we have the ability to do so, not because of an imaginary threat that you made up. Let's be clear on that, this entire aside on DPRK subs with nucleat mines is entirely a figment of your imaginate and not an actual capability of the North Korean military.

Quote:

on the other you say they are obsolete & not a threat.

The Romeo-class is obsolete and presents no threat to anyone save the poor hapless bastards that have to sail the damn things.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Chard Gold Member Offline Mein Führer! I can walk! Posts: 1077 Alabama, USA Gender:	Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks Reply #62 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:40am Cofgod wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:35am: My brother's going on holiday to North Korea later this year. Hope likes soju, fanaticism, and being constantly shadowed by socialist midgets.
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Cofgod

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #63 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 4:25am

Chard wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:40am:

Cofgod wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:35am:

My brother's going on holiday to North Korea later this year.

Hope likes soju, fanaticism, and being constantly shadowed by socialist midgets.

He likes Karl Pilkington. He knows what it's like to go abroad and be shadowed by midgets. That's nothing. You should watch British comedy travel TV series "An Idiot Abroad".

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« Last Edit: Mar 14^th, 2013 at 6:43am by Cofgod »

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Chard Gold Member Offline Mein Führer! I can walk! Posts: 1077 Alabama, USA Gender:	Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks Reply #64 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 6:37am Congrats. That's the creepiest goddamn I've seen this week. Well done.
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Cofgod Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 693 Bolton, Great Britain Gender:	Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks Reply #65 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 6:39am Quote: Congrats. That's the creepiest goddamn I've seen this week. Well done. It's the funniest documentary series ever. The little one played an ewok in Star Wars 30 years' ago. Here they are in China:
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Bobby.

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #66 - Mar 15^th, 2013 at 6:50am

Chard wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:37am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 6:27pm:

Chard wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:10am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 12^th, 2013 at 4:56pm:

Chard wrote on Mar 12^th, 2013 at 6:09am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 11^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

Who's to say that the NKs haven't upgraded their subs to still be formidable weapons?

You can only upgrade so much before hard limits imposed by hull design and little to no experience with shipbuilding halt further progress. You can replace all the electronics, you can sock a few nukes aboard, but in the end you're still dealing with a second generation WWII German Type 21 and sinking those is something the US has quite a bit of experience with.

You can also change the hull design - put quieter propellers etc.
My bet is that they are modernised more than you think.

That's not changing the design. You're just replacing props. My point is that as old a design as the Romeo-class is tb ere is only so much that you can do to modernize it before you're forced to either buy or build an entirely new sub class.

Dear Chard,
On one hand you admit that the Yanks are following these subs because they are such a threat &

I've said no such thing. In fact I've made it clear that we track pretty much everything because we have the ability to do so, not because of an imaginary threat that you made up. Let's be clear on that, this entire aside on DPRK subs with nucleat mines is entirely a figment of your imaginate and not an actual capability of the North Korean military.

Quote:

on the other you say they are obsolete & not a threat.

The Romeo-class is obsolete and presents no threat to anyone save the poor hapless bastards that have to sail the damn things.

I did not make this threat up.
It's obvious that if a nuclear weapon is too large to fit
on a missile then it could still be placed on ship or sub.

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Chard

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #67 - Mar 16^th, 2013 at 2:00am

Nuclear weapons research doesn't like that, Bobby. The entire point of every nuclear weapons research program ever has been about boosting compression of nuclear fuel in order to make the device more efficent so smaller devices using less fuel can be made. Another benefit to decreasing device size anx mass is it widens your options for delivery systems. We call that process "weaponization". If your nuclear weapons program can't properly weaponize your nuclear deterrent and you're forced to turn a submarine into a giant manned torpeado then you aren't a threat to anyone other than yourself.

So yes, you did make that sh*t up.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Bobby. Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 105358 Melbourne Gender:	Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks Reply #68 - Mar 16^th, 2013 at 10:44am Chard Quote: submarine into a giant manned torpedo Chard, No - you're wrong. A sub or a ship can be just a humble freight alternative. You have no imagination. Real threats depend on what is possible not impossible.
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Chard

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #69 - Mar 16^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 10:44am:

A sub or a ship can be just a humble freight alternative.

For the sake of argument let's assume the first generation DPRK nuclear device is the same mass and dimensions as the Mk. 3 Fat Man device the US used to relandscape Nagasaki. That gives us a 3.3m long, 1.5m wide device around 4600kg.

A submarine would be problematic. You'd have to do it with a military sub and hope like hell your boat has a hatch big enough to accomidate the device. If you don't have a hatch large enough you'll have to cut a hole through the pressure hull which is going to weaken the ship. Even if you do get it aboard you're not moving it anywhere because your passage ways aren't wide enough to move it.

A freighter would be doable, but the second they assemble the device's core for arming we'll know the exact location of the ship.

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 10:44am:

Real threats depend on what is possible not impossible.

Wrong again. Threats are evaluated by what is most likely to occure, not possibilities.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks Reply #70 - Mar 16^th, 2013 at 1:48pm Yes Bobby..NK might consider putting a nuclear mine on a submarine and deploying it in American waters......IF North Korea's intention is to get their country bombed into a car park. Because THAT is the only result from that action..
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Bobby.

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #71 - Mar 16^th, 2013 at 3:06pm

Chard,
Quote:

If you don't have a hatch large enough you'll have to cut a hole through the pressure hull which is going to weaken the ship.

Dear Chard,
If a country can launch a satellite into space they can manufacture a hatch on a sub.
You have no imagination.

The truth is that I'm right & the Yanks are watching all the subs & ships
of North Korea very closely because any of them could be carrying a bomb.

you are forgiven

namaste

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Chard

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #72 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 4:59am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 3:06pm:

Dear Chard,
If a country can launch a satellite into space they can manufacture a hatch on a sub.

Ship building and rocketry are two completely different engineering diciplines, Bobby. Because you can do one does not mean you can do the other. The North Koreans do not have the capability to design and build their own submarines, so cutting a 12ft by 6ft hole in a forty year old submarine hull and then repair that hole good enough to not degrade the sub's submerged performance is highly unlikely.

Quote:

You have no imagination.

And you have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:

The truth is that I'm right & the Yanks are watching all the subs & ships
of North Korea very closely because any of them could be carrying a bomb.

If that's the case then explain why it is we're expanding our ABM capability and not our surface warfare and ASW capability? Oh, right, because the DPRK is working on ballistic missile technology instead of following your reasoning of putting smacking screendoors on submarines.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Bobby.

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #73 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:30am

Chard - you're a doubting Thomas.

The Yanks are leaving nothing to chance.
They are improving their missile defence & watching the subs & ships very closely.

A secret war is going on all the time & we are just not privy to it.
The specifications & capabilities of Yankee satellities are top secret.
We will never know the truth in our lifetimes so all we have is internet speculation.
Yes - I am guilty of this.

Our approval is not needed.

Are you comforted?

namaste

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Bobby.

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Re: North Korea to nuke the Yanks
Reply #74 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 7:51pm

Latest news

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/28/world/asia/korea-us-b2-flights/index.html?hpt=...

Quote:

U.S. says it sent B-2 stealth bombers over South Korea.

CNN) -- The United States said Thursday it sent stealth bombers to South Korea to participate in annual military exercises amid spiking tensions with North Korea.

The B-2 Spirit bombers flew more than 6,500 miles from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri to South Korea, dropping inert munitions there as part of the exercises, before returning to the U.S. mainland, the U.S Forces in Korea said in a statement.

The mission by the planes, which can carry both conventional and nuclear weapons, "demonstrates the United States' ability to conduct long range, precision strikes quickly and at will," the statement said.

Are we doomed?
Is this the End Times?

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