Australian Politics Forum - So are they illegal now?

Armchair_Politician

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #45 - Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:23pm

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal??? Wow, what a dope!!! Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh? Sucks to be you!!!

Perhaps you need to read the whole thread.

To summarise, arrivals are not considered illegal or unlawful under the Act unless they reach the Australian landmass or an Australian port before they are intercepted. If they are intercepted at sea and escorted to Australia to claim asylum, they are considered "lawful citizens". They remain "lawful citizens" unless their claims for asylum are subsequently rejected.

Sucks to be illiterate. Roll Eyes

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to be illiterate. If they were considered lawful citizens, then (a) they would need to hold Australian citizenship to be called a "citizen" of Australia and (b) they'd need a passport and visa - both of which they threw overboard...

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John Smith

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #46 - Mar 13^th, 2013 at 10:20pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal??? Wow, what a dope!!! Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh? Sucks to be you!!!

Perhaps you need to read the whole thread.

To summarise, arrivals are not considered illegal or unlawful under the Act unless they reach the Australian landmass or an Australian port before they are intercepted. If they are intercepted at sea and escorted to Australia to claim asylum, they are considered "lawful citizens". They remain "lawful citizens" unless their claims for asylum are subsequently rejected.

Sucks to be illiterate. Roll Eyes

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to be illiterate. If they were considered lawful citizens, then (a) they would need to hold Australian citizenship to be called a "citizen" of Australia and (b) they'd need a passport and visa - both of which they threw overboard...

I'll try and simplify it for stupid ...

You are in a boat coming to Australia, you are not illegal... naval boat stops you and you board the navel boat, you tell the captain you wish to seek asylum in australia, not illegal... the only time one can be illegal is once they are on australian land, but since you have already sought asylum you are NOT ILLEGAL ... do you get it yet dopey????

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NBNMyths

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #47 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 5:35am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:07pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:13pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:03pm:

Can't see anything there about the sea itself being a "sea installation". Embarrassed

I said Australian waters as being a sea installation

For a detailed explanation see section 9

Australian waters are not a sea installation, as defined by the act.

How about you just admit you've been wrong all this time, and stop embarrassing yourself further?

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/s5.html#australian_w...

OK. I get it. You're an idiot.

That doesn't say that Australian Waters are a sea installation. It defines what Australian Waters are for the purpose of building a sea installation.

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with the migration Act, or the definition of a migration zone. For that, it is 100% absolutely clear, that the sea outside a port is not within the migration zone. And since an asylum seeker has done nothing illegal unless they enter the migration zone before they are intercepted, then the vast majority of boat arrivals are not "illegals".

I'll be ending this debate now, because you're either too stupid to understand English, or you're trolling. Either way, you're wasting my time.

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Debunking the FUD on the NBN

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #48 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 6:39am

John Smith wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal??? Wow, what a dope!!! Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh? Sucks to be you!!!

Perhaps you need to read the whole thread.

To summarise, arrivals are not considered illegal or unlawful under the Act unless they reach the Australian landmass or an Australian port before they are intercepted. If they are intercepted at sea and escorted to Australia to claim asylum, they are considered "lawful citizens". They remain "lawful citizens" unless their claims for asylum are subsequently rejected.

Sucks to be illiterate. Roll Eyes

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to be illiterate. If they were considered lawful citizens, then (a) they would need to hold Australian citizenship to be called a "citizen" of Australia and (b) they'd need a passport and visa - both of which they threw overboard...

I'll try and simplify it for stupid ...

You are in a boat coming to Australia, you are not illegal... naval boat stops you and you board the navel boat, you tell the captain you wish to seek asylum in australia, not illegal... the only time one can be illegal is once they are on australian land, but since you have already sought asylum you are NOT ILLEGAL ... do you get it yet dopey????

They are trying to come to Australia without a passport or visa having paid people smugglers tens of thousands of dollars to board those leaky boats. When "intercepted" by the navy, they promptly refuse to turn around and demand to be taken to Australia to claim asylum. The navy can't leave them there under international maritime law and so has an obligation to take them to Christmas Island. Once there, they are detained under our Immigration laws due to not having passports/visas until their claim for asylum is processed. They are detained because it is illegal to enter this (or any) country without a valid passport/visa and this detention only occurs for however long it takes for their claim for asylum to be processed. Once a decision is made, they are either released if their claim is accepted or deported if it is rejected.

I don't know how to dumb this down anymore for such a simpleton as yourself. It really shouldn't be hard to understand, even for the uneducated like you.

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olde.sault

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #49 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 7:12am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 12^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

Some lefties here believe that these people are saying that "claiming asylum" is not illegal therefore it absolve these people from illegally entering Australia. This is despite the Migration Act and Un Refugee convention saying otherwise. We'll put that aside for a second because if they are not illegal then there's no need to deport them. You don't deport someone who is in Australia legally.

Back to the story.

These illegals are detained as per the Migration Act. The Migration Act also provide prosecutions via the Criminal Code.

They have broken out of detention. Any criminals who breaks out of their detention are further prosecuted.

So should these illegals now have these breakouts count against them ie they've broken Australian law the second time and the UN Refugee convention requires them to adhere by all laws of the country they are claiming asylum.

Quote:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/16348676/five-asylum-seekers-attempt-nauru...

A group of asylum seekers has attempted to escape from the Nauru regional immigration processing centre.

The Department of Immigration says five people breached the fences of the Nauru centre yesterday.

One man is understood to have made it into town.

An Immigration Department spokeswoman says the five detainees were soon returned to the centre.

There have also been three new cases of self-harm at the centre.

The men are receiving medical care on Nauru.

The centre opened in August as part of the Australian Government's plan to deal with irregular boat arrivals, but processing has been delayed.

On Tuesday afternoon the Government announced that asylum seekers on Nauru will be able to start the process to apply for refugee status from March 18.

Two service providers have been awarded contracts to assist them.

The Nauruan justice secretary will decide whether they are valid.

The Government says the assistance should not be taken as an indication that offshore arrivals will be considered ahead of those who come to Australia through regular channels.

Asylum seekers don't emerge from the ocean, having swum the ocean.

They paid criminal smugglers for their passages and so, by the country's laws, are crims "after the fact".

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olde.sault

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #50 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 7:19am

John Smith wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal??? Wow, what a dope!!! Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh? Sucks to be you!!!

Perhaps you need to read the whole thread.

To summarise, arrivals are not considered illegal or unlawful under the Act unless they reach the Australian landmass or an Australian port before they are intercepted. If they are intercepted at sea and escorted to Australia to claim asylum, they are considered "lawful citizens". They remain "lawful citizens" unless their claims for asylum are subsequently rejected.

Sucks to be illiterate. Roll Eyes

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to be illiterate. If they were considered lawful citizens, then (a) they would need to hold Australian citizenship to be called a "citizen" of Australia and (b) they'd need a passport and visa - both of which they threw overboard...

I'll try and simplify it for stupid ...

You are in a boat coming to Australia, you are not illegal... naval boat stops you and you board the navel boat, you tell the captain you wish to seek asylum in australia, not illegal... the only time one can be illegal is once they are on australian land, but since you have already sought asylum you are NOT ILLEGAL ... do you get it yet dopey????

It is you, J.Smith who is the fool.

If one buys a bottle of whisky from a stolen stock, one is prosecuted.

If smugglers are prosecuted and jailed, they are considered criminals and anyone who pays for a passage from a smuggler, is also considered a criminal.

It is just that we, Australians, are a "soft touch" for any story, one that can't be proven by the non-show of a passport.

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John Smith

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #51 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 8:11am

olde.sault wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 7:19am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal??? Wow, what a dope!!! Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh? Sucks to be you!!!

Perhaps you need to read the whole thread.

To summarise, arrivals are not considered illegal or unlawful under the Act unless they reach the Australian landmass or an Australian port before they are intercepted. If they are intercepted at sea and escorted to Australia to claim asylum, they are considered "lawful citizens". They remain "lawful citizens" unless their claims for asylum are subsequently rejected.

Sucks to be illiterate. Roll Eyes

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to be illiterate. If they were considered lawful citizens, then (a) they would need to hold Australian citizenship to be called a "citizen" of Australia and (b) they'd need a passport and visa - both of which they threw overboard...

I'll try and simplify it for stupid ...

You are in a boat coming to Australia, you are not illegal... naval boat stops you and you board the navel boat, you tell the captain you wish to seek asylum in australia, not illegal... the only time one can be illegal is once they are on australian land, but since you have already sought asylum you are NOT ILLEGAL ... do you get it yet dopey????

It is you, J.Smith who is the fool.

If one buys a bottle of whisky from a stolen stock, one is prosecuted.

If smugglers are prosecuted and jailed, they are considered criminals and anyone who pays for a passage from a smuggler, is also considered a criminal.

It is just that we, Australians, are a "soft touch" for any story, one that can't be proven by the non-show of a passport.

there is nothing illegal about seeking asylum... every legal expert in the country tells the same story and yet you persist with your fantasy , every politician will admit that it is not illegal, everyone of any note will tell you it is not illegal ..and yet you persist .. do you think you know better?

they are not put in detention for committing a crime, they are put in detention until they can be processed, if they didn't put them in detention you would be whinging they are releasing terrorists into the country ... and then you have the hide to call me a fool

admit it, your an idiot.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Karnal

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #52 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 8:49am

olde.sault wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 7:19am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 10:20pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

NBNMyths wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal??? Wow, what a dope!!! Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh? Sucks to be you!!!

Perhaps you need to read the whole thread.

To summarise, arrivals are not considered illegal or unlawful under the Act unless they reach the Australian landmass or an Australian port before they are intercepted. If they are intercepted at sea and escorted to Australia to claim asylum, they are considered "lawful citizens". They remain "lawful citizens" unless their claims for asylum are subsequently rejected.

Sucks to be illiterate. Roll Eyes

Yes, it must be so difficult for you to be illiterate. If they were considered lawful citizens, then (a) they would need to hold Australian citizenship to be called a "citizen" of Australia and (b) they'd need a passport and visa - both of which they threw overboard...

I'll try and simplify it for stupid ...

You are in a boat coming to Australia, you are not illegal... naval boat stops you and you board the navel boat, you tell the captain you wish to seek asylum in australia, not illegal... the only time one can be illegal is once they are on australian land, but since you have already sought asylum you are NOT ILLEGAL ... do you get it yet dopey????

It is you, J.Smith who is the fool.

If one buys a bottle of whisky from a stolen stock, one is prosecuted.

If smugglers are prosecuted and jailed, they are considered criminals and anyone who pays for a passage from a smuggler, is also considered a criminal.

It is just that we, Australians, are a "soft touch" for any story, one that can't be proven by the non-show of a passport.

True, OS. As you uncovered, the Labor Party are even thinking of extending the vote to non-citizens seeking asylum.

What next? Extending the vote to Indonesians? Just think: 250 million potential Labor voters, but why stop there? China and India have over a billion each - a potential goldmine for the ALP.

Talk about dastardly.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40780 Gender:	Re: So are they illegal now? Reply #53 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 10:35am once an illegal, always an illegal should brand it onto their foreheads, casterate them and deport them.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #54 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 11:27am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

When is something "unlawful" not illegal???

'Unlawful' means not authorized by law.

'Illegal' means forbidden by law.

Something 'illegal' is expressly proscribed by statute, and something 'unlawful' is just not expressly authorised.

A subtle difference that I wouldn't expect you to understand.

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

Just can't get your head around the FACT they are illegal immigrants, eh?

That is 100% incorrect.

Asylum seekers are neither 'illegal' nor 'immigrants'.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: So are they illegal now? Reply #55 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 11:29am Havent we covered this sh*t every single day for the last 900 days.... This is seriously like a couple of guys with dementia.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: So are they illegal now?
Reply #56 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 11:39am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 6:39am:

When "intercepted" by the navy, they promptly refuse to turn around and demand to be taken to Australia to claim asylum.

No, they claim asylum right there on the spot.

They don't need to be taken anywhere to claim asylum: all they have to do is say "I wish to claim asylum" once they are intercepted and they then become perfectly legal asylum seekers.

Then ... they apply for a protection visa.

Then is no application form or approval process to become an asylum seeker.

There is, however, an approval process to go through in order to be granted a protection visa and subsequently become a refugee.

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buzzanddidj Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14214 Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC Gender:	Re: So are they illegal now? Reply #57 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:43pm greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 4:20pm: Infarction wrote on Mar 13^th, 2013 at 5:48am: I can't figure out if Maqqa is the ultimate troll, or just completely retarded. A little from column A, a little from column B. *Let's put it to the PEOPLE - in a poll*
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: So are they illegal now? Reply #58 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:55pm Being called a retard by Buzz is kinda like being called short sighted by Stevie Wonder. State school education wasnt it Buzz?
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: So are they illegal now? Reply #59 - Mar 14^th, 2013 at 1:37pm NBNMyths wrote on Mar 14^th, 2013 at 5:35am: OK. I get it. You're an idiot. That doesn't say that Australian Waters are* a sea installation.* It defines what Australian Waters are for the purpose of building a sea installation. So the Migration Act governs how you build a sea installation? The idiot is you!!!
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Poll
Question: Is Maqqa ...
the ultimate TROLL ? 2 (25.0%) just completely RETARDED ? 6 (75.0%) Total votes: 8 « Created by: buzzanddidj on: Mar 14^th, 2013 at 12:43pm »