Australian Politics Forum - How many old people leave everything to a church ?

John Smith

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #135 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:29am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:25am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:21am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:17am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 9:57pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 4:45pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 4:16pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

how else can someone justify a belief in something that doesn't exist?

This happens very regularly. Post-modern atheists are no exception. Generally, the modern-day atheist is an egalitarian and a believer in equality. Where does equality exist? Where does the complete harmonious society exist? It doesn't. They are nothing but ideals and thus mental images in the heads of the modern day atheist.

Being a materialist, how does the post-modern atheist reconcile this? How can you critique religion from a materialist standpoint, but then go on to believe in immaterial ideas yourself?

Religious people are consistent on this point. Rarely do they try and justify their religion on material and/or empirical grounds. They do it, rather, on faith. But the materialist cannot justify their ideals on faith, as they would break one of their cardinal rules. So how does it ground equality when no empirical evidence of it exists?

It is doubly ironic that the post-modern atheist also gets these ideas of equality, harmony etc from religion. Atheists did not invent them; they inherited them from the past. They want to bring the religious heaven down to earth; establish nirvana in the phenomenal realm.

Today's peculiar brand of atheism is not as smart as it thinks it is. They just swallow slogans without thinking them through to their consequences.

you want to compare belief in a fictional overlord to equality and harmony etc? Shocked

we can strive for things like equality, it is simply a way in which we would like to improve humanity as we see it . We cannot strive to become gods ... unless you are insane like whitey... A rather poor example I think.

But without an empirical or material base, equality remains a belief.
Equality doesn't exist, as you state, rather, you strive for it. It is almost identical to the Buddhist who strives for Nirvana - it's all in the mind!

There's nothing wrong with having beliefs and ideals, but it's a bit rich to badger the immaterialists when you use similar methods.

Firstly, you likened atheism to equality, not me, personally I don't see the connection but since you asked,
equality does exist, and you are right, I strive for it ... I have some equality in my immediate family ... how can I measure it? well one way of measuring it is by the fact that I have to cook even though I don't like cooking , I take turns changing nappies even though I don't want to .. these are all measurements I can use to justify that equality exists .. how can you justify that god exists?

Ok. So the immaterial made material. Kind of like when the religious claim to be doing god's work - the immaterial made material.

nothing like it .....

You sound a bit vague. Are you having trouble exemplifying your abstract concepts?

I'm not a fan of abstract concepts ...probably why I don't believe in god .... go figure .

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Our esteemed leader:
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John Smith

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #136 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:38am

To claim that not believing in a god is somehow the same as believing in a God because they both require an element of faith is ludicrous ... A belief in god is based purely on faith ... nothing else ..anything they cannot explain they put down to faith ... what a cop out.

an atheist on the other hand bases his belief on what he sees around him , the so called representatives of god doing the opposite of what they preach, the church's lust for wealth, the church historically being responsible for more deaths than any other person or persons, the people suffering and starving despite the fact that they were put there by a gracious god , as well as a million and one other things in the world around us ... that is not a blind faith .. it is evidence that disproves a high and mighty all powerful compassionate being. I would never torture my kids the way god supposedly tortures some of his.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ? Reply #137 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 10:13am I am ready to abandon Democracy for the Churchand I think millions of people will be as they turn from its greed and corruption in disgust and dedicate themselves to the poor...leave the Demons to the Demons...
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #138 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 10:14am

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:20am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 4:35am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

how else can someone justify a belief in something that doesn't exist?

This happens very regularly. Post-modern atheists are no exception. Generally, the modern-day atheist is an egalitarian and a believer in equality. Where does equality exist? Where does the complete harmonious society exist? It doesn't. They are nothing but ideals and thus mental images in the heads of the modern day atheist.

Being a materialist, how does the post-modern atheist reconcile this? How can you critique religion from a materialist standpoint, but then go on to believe in immaterial ideas yourself?

Religious people are consistent on this point. Rarely do they try and justify their religion on material and/or empirical grounds. They do it, rather, on faith. But the materialist cannot justify their ideals on faith, as they would break one of their cardinal rules. So how does it ground equality when no empirical evidence of it exists?

It is doubly ironic that the post-modern atheist also gets these ideas of equality, harmony etc from religion. Atheists did not invent them; they inherited them from the past. They want to bring the religious heaven down to earth; establish nirvana in the phenomenal realm.

Today's peculiar brand of atheism is not as smart as it thinks it is. They just swallow slogans without thinking them through to their consequences.

Wow. Someone trying to claim what atheists "believe". I see you arent even trying to back it up though.

SOB

Is it in dispute that atheists believe there is no god?

You do know there's no proof of this claim, therefore it's a belief? no..err...of course you don't.

For most atheists its just not a belief that there is a god. This in itself is not a belief.

SOB

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ? Reply #139 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 10:32am I just cant put up with any more of this crap they call democracy or the dregs that go into that Parliament, I am ready to let the Church be the Church and once it is, most of the Western world will flock to it and abandon democracy to the few who feed luxuriously off it and off our flesh...
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...

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #140 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:01am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 10:14am:

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:20am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 4:35am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

how else can someone justify a belief in something that doesn't exist?

This happens very regularly. Post-modern atheists are no exception. Generally, the modern-day atheist is an egalitarian and a believer in equality. Where does equality exist? Where does the complete harmonious society exist? It doesn't. They are nothing but ideals and thus mental images in the heads of the modern day atheist.

Being a materialist, how does the post-modern atheist reconcile this? How can you critique religion from a materialist standpoint, but then go on to believe in immaterial ideas yourself?

Religious people are consistent on this point. Rarely do they try and justify their religion on material and/or empirical grounds. They do it, rather, on faith. But the materialist cannot justify their ideals on faith, as they would break one of their cardinal rules. So how does it ground equality when no empirical evidence of it exists?

It is doubly ironic that the post-modern atheist also gets these ideas of equality, harmony etc from religion. Atheists did not invent them; they inherited them from the past. They want to bring the religious heaven down to earth; establish nirvana in the phenomenal realm.

Today's peculiar brand of atheism is not as smart as it thinks it is. They just swallow slogans without thinking them through to their consequences.

Wow. Someone trying to claim what atheists "believe". I see you arent even trying to back it up though.

SOB

Is it in dispute that atheists believe there is no god?

You do know there's no proof of this claim, therefore it's a belief? no..err...of course you don't.

For most atheists its just not a belief that there is a god. This in itself is not a belief.

SOB

No doubt this will fall on deaf ears but...

Quote:

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
Noun
The theory or belief that God does not exist.

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In the fullness of time...

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #141 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:15am

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:01am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 10:14am:

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 9:20am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 4:35am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 3:14pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 16^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

how else can someone justify a belief in something that doesn't exist?

This happens very regularly. Post-modern atheists are no exception. Generally, the modern-day atheist is an egalitarian and a believer in equality. Where does equality exist? Where does the complete harmonious society exist? It doesn't. They are nothing but ideals and thus mental images in the heads of the modern day atheist.

Being a materialist, how does the post-modern atheist reconcile this? How can you critique religion from a materialist standpoint, but then go on to believe in immaterial ideas yourself?

Religious people are consistent on this point. Rarely do they try and justify their religion on material and/or empirical grounds. They do it, rather, on faith. But the materialist cannot justify their ideals on faith, as they would break one of their cardinal rules. So how does it ground equality when no empirical evidence of it exists?

It is doubly ironic that the post-modern atheist also gets these ideas of equality, harmony etc from religion. Atheists did not invent them; they inherited them from the past. They want to bring the religious heaven down to earth; establish nirvana in the phenomenal realm.

Today's peculiar brand of atheism is not as smart as it thinks it is. They just swallow slogans without thinking them through to their consequences.

Wow. Someone trying to claim what atheists "believe". I see you arent even trying to back it up though.

SOB

Is it in dispute that atheists believe there is no god?

You do know there's no proof of this claim, therefore it's a belief? no..err...of course you don't.

For most atheists its just not a belief that there is a god. This in itself is not a belief.

SOB

No doubt this will fall on deaf ears but...

Quote:

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/
Noun
The theory or belief that God does not exist.

That doesnt really make sense though. Obviously you got that definition from some religious source. Its not a belief when you just dont believe in a deity. Is not riding a bicycle a sport?

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ? Reply #142 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:21am Look - if something cannot be proven, as is the case with the (non)existence of a deity, any position taken, whether it be affirmative or negative, is a belief. This has been explained several dozen times to you - why the bugger do you still cling to your idiocy?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 106430 Melbourne Gender:	Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ? Reply #143 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:23am Church people hang around old people to get their money - it's sickening.
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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #144 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:27am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

Church people hang around old people to get their money -

it's sickening.

Actually, you'll find that old people hang around the church. If they had more deserving family or friends, I'm sure they'd leave their money to them instead.

What's it to you anyway?

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Bobby.

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #145 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:30am

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

Church people hang around old people to get their money -

it's sickening.

Actually, you'll find that old people hang around the church. If they had more deserving family or friends, I'm sure they'd leave their money to them instead.

What's it to you anyway?

because they befriend & pretend to like the old person with an ulterior motive -

the money!

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gizmo_2655 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16010 South West NSW Gender:	Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ? Reply #146 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:30am Bobby. wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:23am: Church people hang around old people to get their money - it's sickening. And of course if the old people's children visited or cared for them instead of leaving it to the Church people, it might not happen..
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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #147 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:38am

Bobby. wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:27am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

Church people hang around old people to get their money -

it's sickening.

Actually, you'll find that old people hang around the church. If they had more deserving family or friends, I'm sure they'd leave their money to them instead.

What's it to you anyway?

because they befriend & pretend to like the old person with an ulterior motive -

the money!

Maybe they're not pretending?

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In the fullness of time...

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ?
Reply #148 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:44am

... wrote on Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:21am:

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/le-sigh.gif

Look - if something cannot be proven, as is the case with the (non)existence of a deity, any position taken, whether it be affirmative or negative, is a belief.

This has been explained several dozen times to you - why the bugger do you still cling to your idiocy?

Because you are wrong.

SOB

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Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: How many old people leave everything to a church ? Reply #149 - Mar 17^th, 2013 at 11:48am
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