Australian Politics Forum - Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades

John Smith

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #165 - Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:04pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1363488537/151#151 date=1363826962][quote author=John_Smith link=1363488537/141#141 date=1363819137][quote author=Timbo2530 link=1363488537/139#139 date=1363818958][quote author=John_Smith link=1363488537/127#127 date=1363780715][quote author=Timbo2530 link=1363488537/118#118 date=1363738810][quote author=Spot_of_Borg link=1363488537/117#117 date=1363735908]Why do some of you ppl call the government "socialist" and yet want them to fund private businesses?

SOB

a) they werent given land. they bought it just like most people do.
b) the $700B figure is complete crap and a figment of some blogger. The clue is the suspiciously 'round' nature of the number. It wasn't $328.5B it was some completely fabricated, madeup figure. just liek te one in your signature block

a) the church is often donated land or given concessions by the govt. ... especially if they say they are going to use it to build a school.
b) the $700B figure is what i rounded it down to .. I don't remember the exact figure but I do remember it was in excess of $700B ... by the way, that figure was 2 or 3 yrs ago and I'm sure their total assets have increased since then.

so in short you have a problem with the building of schools and your figure of $700B is something you read somewhere rather than from an actual verfied account. Funnily enough it is the same bogus figure that lastnail came up with a few days before you quoted it. So not only are you quoting an unverified bloggers figure but it is of all people, lastnail.

more than just an epic fail....

the figure was on a copy of the catholic churchs balance sheet. How much more verified than that do you want? the fact that I can't remember where I got a copy of the balance sheet from does not detract from it.

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John Smith

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #166 - Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:06pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 4:55am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:46pm:

john smith... it would appear your entire argument amounts to nothing more than 'i hate private enterprise'. there is no logic. no coherent argument - just a belief that private organisations are inherently evil and that you would HAPPILY pay more in taxes than let a private group - even a non-profit - do the work.

the difference between that opinion and that of a communist are not that much. And communists can't balance the budget either so that explains your love of the ALp and so on.

And yet as such an advocate of private enterprise you think it should be funded by the government

SOB

why not? private enterprise funds the government! you dont think the govt actually EARNS anything, do you?

sure they do ... they earn our condemnation.

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #167 - Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:24pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:04pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1363488537/151#151 date=1363826962][quote author=John_Smith link=1363488537/141#141 date=1363819137][quote author=Timbo2530 link=1363488537/139#139 date=1363818958][quote author=John_Smith link=1363488537/127#127 date=1363780715][quote author=Timbo2530 link=1363488537/118#118 date=1363738810][quote author=Spot_of_Borg link=1363488537/117#117 date=1363735908]Why do some of you ppl call the government "socialist" and yet want them to fund private businesses?

SOB

a) they werent given land. they bought it just like most people do.
b) the $700B figure is complete crap and a figment of some blogger. The clue is the suspiciously 'round' nature of the number. It wasn't $328.5B it was some completely fabricated, madeup figure. just liek te one in your signature block

a) the church is often donated land or given concessions by the govt. ... especially if they say they are going to use it to build a school.
b) the $700B figure is what i rounded it down to .. I don't remember the exact figure but I do remember it was in excess of $700B ... by the way, that figure was 2 or 3 yrs ago and I'm sure their total assets have increased since then.

so in short you have a problem with the building of schools and your figure of $700B is something you read somewhere rather than from an actual verfied account. Funnily enough it is the same bogus figure that lastnail came up with a few days before you quoted it. So not only are you quoting an unverified bloggers figure but it is of all people, lastnail.

more than just an epic fail....

the figure was on a copy of the catholic churchs balance sheet. How much more verified than that do you want? the fact that I can't remember where I got a copy of the balance sheet from does not detract from it.

given you record for dubious facts, i utterly reject your claim. and it would be on an ASSETS and LIABILITIES sheet.

nope, I call it for the BS we all know it to be.

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John Smith

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #168 - Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 7:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:05pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:47pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:04pm:

[quote author=longweekend58 link=1363488537/151#151 date=1363826962][quote author=John_Smith link=1363488537/141#141 date=1363819137][quote author=Timbo2530 link=1363488537/139#139 date=1363818958][quote author=John_Smith link=1363488537/127#127 date=1363780715][quote author=Timbo2530 link=1363488537/118#118 date=1363738810][quote author=Spot_of_Borg link=1363488537/117#117 date=1363735908]Why do some of you ppl call the government "socialist" and yet want them to fund private businesses?

SOB

a) they werent given land. they bought it just like most people do.
b) the $700B figure is complete crap and a figment of some blogger. The clue is the suspiciously 'round' nature of the number. It wasn't $328.5B it was some completely fabricated, madeup figure. just liek te one in your signature block

a) the church is often donated land or given concessions by the govt. ... especially if they say they are going to use it to build a school.
b) the $700B figure is what i rounded it down to .. I don't remember the exact figure but I do remember it was in excess of $700B ... by the way, that figure was 2 or 3 yrs ago and I'm sure their total assets have increased since then.

so in short you have a problem with the building of schools and your figure of $700B is something you read somewhere rather than from an actual verfied account. Funnily enough it is the same bogus figure that lastnail came up with a few days before you quoted it. So not only are you quoting an unverified bloggers figure but it is of all people, lastnail.

more than just an epic fail....

the figure was on a copy of the catholic churchs balance sheet. How much more verified than that do you want? the fact that I can't remember where I got a copy of the balance sheet from does not detract from it.

given you record for dubious facts, i utterly reject your claim. and it would be on an ASSETS and LIABILITIES sheet.

nope, I call it for the BS we all know it to be.

the only BS is the crap that you type ... I don't give a fig what you reject .. I reject the notion that you have a brain.

whoopdedoo

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #169 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:51am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 10:52am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 8:57am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 8:53am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 8:37am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:33am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 9:56pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 3:27pm:

Not at all.
Funding should be the same flat level to all kids - public and private.

No child should not receive public funding for their education.

Then private schools should charge on top of that and state schools just keep to the funding level.

That way parents who choose to fund their child through fees get more - because as you all know and agree - you should always get something for your money.

What on earth would be the point in paying for an education when the state is funding other kids for free if its no better??

the public school funding is there ... for all the kids ... you chose to forgo it for private that is your choice and you should pay.

Even if everyone paid the same amount of tax you still wouldn't have a valid point.

Of course it's valid, simply arguing that ones point isn't valid without an explanation why it is not is in itself not a valid argument ...

if I provide for your kids and you decide to take your kids elsewehre why should I provide more?

Yee-gods but that's the point Exclaim

You are not providing more funding you (as a tax-payer) are providing less. 70% less. Roll Eyes

Govt is chartered to provide education for every Australian child. Every Australian kid is entitled to the same education dollar from the Govt regardless of who their parents are or how the education is delivered.

Where is the proviso that every child must receive the same dollar amount?? It is nice to make these things up to suit your argument. By that argument, if govt's spend $1million per prisoner to keep them in jail, we should all receive $1million? That would be fair wouldn't it? Why should I pay for them and not get any myself?

Govt. must provide education for every child, you must send your child to school, if you chose not to use govt. schooling that is your choice. You want equal dollars, send them to public schools.

that is a daft argument that is so dumb it defies belief. but so much of what you say defies belief. even your signature block screams out you stupidity and gullibility.

That is called ad-hominem when you just abuse him without referring to the topic @ all and certainly not answering any questions or giving any alternate view.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #170 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:53am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:11pm:

it is not about cost ... the govt. has a duty to provide education .. it does ... if you chose not to use it and go elsewhere it should be you that pays.

And we do.
We pay more on top to ensure we have an advantage.

The Government also has a duty to ensure that taxes I pay go towards EVERY Australian child as well.

An advantage. So you dont really want anything to be "fair" @ all after all do you. What you want is to pretend you are superior and for the government to pay for it.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #171 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:55am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 7:41pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 10:49am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 8:38am:

Swagman wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 8:35am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

Swagman wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:20am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

Why do some of you ppl call the government "socialist" and yet want them to fund private businesses?

SOB

It's the party in Govt that is being branded 'socialist'.

GOVT is NOT funding private business. Funding is a handout.

Think of Private schools as a sub-contractor. They are being paid for delivering a service that the Govt is obliged to provide. Instead of costing them $1 per head it costs Govt 30c per head. The 70c they save can be spent elsewhere on other essential Govt services.

Think of it another way, say the Govt nationalised schools. They would have to find that extra 70c per head and also find additional money to accommodate the extra 30% of student numbers.

Unless they went into massive unsustainable debt other Govt services would be cut. Dole would be less, pensions would be less etc etc etc

Savvy? Huh

Sub contractors are private businesses .... and that analogy doesn't apply anyway ... govt subsidise schools, not pay them .

the rest of your claims are unsubstantiated claims put out by the private schools themselves .. I'm sure it helps them when arguing for extra funding.

Most sub-contractors are private businesses but do you know what a "not for profit organisation" is John Smith?

Do you know why they get income tax exempt status and why their employees get additional income tax breaks?

They lever off the private sector and provide essential Govt services more efficiently and at massive savings to the budget. Shocked

NFPs undertake services that the Govt of the day is obliged to provide. They get funding from various sources but mainly from Govt. It goes down in the books as 'grant' funding from Govt but in actuality the Govt is sub-contracting its own work load to save taxpayer money.

Private schools are NFPs. They provide essential Govt services and whether you call their funding a subsidy, grant, contract receipts, wealthfare it matters not. The result is the SAME.

Aged care, respite care, palliative care, disability welfare, community childcare, employment & training, neighbourhood centres etc are the same. They all get Govt funding to provide Govt services in the same way as private schools.

Private schools are not businesses. As not for profits no one is making an earn from them. They do not have share holders where surpluses are distributed to.

I don't particularly care about their profits or lack thereof, it is still a private business. If it cannot sustain itself, it should not exist.

it exists simply to prove a government service cheaper and better. only you could have a problem with that. no one makes a profit, no one gets a perk but you dont like it because...

who knows?

no one gets a perk? Catholic Church has the greatest percentage of private schools... with over $700 B in assets globally. How much of the $700 B is made up of land that was given to them to build their schools on? Of course their are perks .. it justifies it's existence.

a) they werent given land. they bought it just like most people do.
b) the $700B figure is complete crap and a figment of some blogger. The clue is the suspiciously 'round' nature of the number. It wasn't $328.5B it was some completely fabricated, madeup figure. just liek te one in your signature block

Well thats a private business. Buy its own land build its own school and run its own school. No need for government interference.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #172 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:56am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:06pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 4:55am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:46pm:

john smith... it would appear your entire argument amounts to nothing more than 'i hate private enterprise'. there is no logic. no coherent argument - just a belief that private organisations are inherently evil and that you would HAPPILY pay more in taxes than let a private group - even a non-profit - do the work.

the difference between that opinion and that of a communist are not that much. And communists can't balance the budget either so that explains your love of the ALp and so on.

And yet as such an advocate of private enterprise you think it should be funded by the government

SOB

why not? private enterprise funds the government! you dont think the govt actually EARNS anything, do you?

They used to before they sold all the assets

SOB

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #173 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 8:26am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:53am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:11pm:

it is not about cost ... the govt. has a duty to provide education .. it does ... if you chose not to use it and go elsewhere it should be you that pays.

And we do.
We pay more on top to ensure we have an advantage.

The Government also has a duty to ensure that taxes I pay go towards EVERY Australian child as well.

An advantage. So you dont really want anything to be "fair" @ all after all do you. What you want is to pretend you are superior and for the government to pay for it.

SOB

apart from your epic fail on understanding his post, he IS superior to you. We all are.

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #174 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 8:26am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:56am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:06pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 4:55am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:46pm:

john smith... it would appear your entire argument amounts to nothing more than 'i hate private enterprise'. there is no logic. no coherent argument - just a belief that private organisations are inherently evil and that you would HAPPILY pay more in taxes than let a private group - even a non-profit - do the work.

the difference between that opinion and that of a communist are not that much. And communists can't balance the budget either so that explains your love of the ALp and so on.

And yet as such an advocate of private enterprise you think it should be funded by the government

SOB

why not? private enterprise funds the government! you dont think the govt actually EARNS anything, do you?

They used to before they sold all the assets

SOB

wrong again. as usual

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #175 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 9:22am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 8:26am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:53am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:11pm:

it is not about cost ... the govt. has a duty to provide education .. it does ... if you chose not to use it and go elsewhere it should be you that pays.

And we do.
We pay more on top to ensure we have an advantage.

The Government also has a duty to ensure that taxes I pay go towards EVERY Australian child as well.

An advantage. So you dont really want anything to be "fair" @ all after all do you. What you want is to pretend you are superior and for the government to pay for it.

SOB

apart from your epic fail on understanding his post, he IS superior to you. We all are.

More ad-hominem. I think you problem is that you know you are wrong and cant handle it. You seem to do it to a lot of ppl.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #176 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 9:23am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 8:26am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:56am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 5:06pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2013 at 4:55am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:46pm:

john smith... it would appear your entire argument amounts to nothing more than 'i hate private enterprise'. there is no logic. no coherent argument - just a belief that private organisations are inherently evil and that you would HAPPILY pay more in taxes than let a private group - even a non-profit - do the work.

the difference between that opinion and that of a communist are not that much. And communists can't balance the budget either so that explains your love of the ALp and so on.

And yet as such an advocate of private enterprise you think it should be funded by the government

SOB

why not? private enterprise funds the government! you dont think the govt actually EARNS anything, do you?

They used to before they sold all the assets

SOB

wrong again. as usual

How am i wrong exactly?

SOB

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #177 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 9:32am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:53am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:11pm:

it is not about cost ... the govt. has a duty to provide education .. it does ... if you chose not to use it and go elsewhere it should be you that pays.

And we do.
We pay more on top to ensure we have an advantage.

The Government also has a duty to ensure that taxes I pay go towards EVERY Australian child as well.

An advantage. So you dont really want anything to be "fair" @ all after all do you. What you want is to pretend you are superior and for the government to pay for it.

SOB

The fair part is for every child to receive the same funding from the Government.
The advantage part comes from private schools charging on top of that.

It's not about feeling superior, it's about getting a better education than state school kids because we pay for it.

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adelcrow

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #178 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 9:37am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 9:32am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:53am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:15pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 21^st, 2013 at 4:11pm:

it is not about cost ... the govt. has a duty to provide education .. it does ... if you chose not to use it and go elsewhere it should be you that pays.

And we do.
We pay more on top to ensure we have an advantage.

The Government also has a duty to ensure that taxes I pay go towards EVERY Australian child as well.

An advantage. So you dont really want anything to be "fair" @ all after all do you. What you want is to pretend you are superior and for the government to pay for it.

SOB

The fair part is for every child to receive the same funding from the Government.
The advantage part comes from private schools charging on top of that.

It's not about feeling superior, it's about getting a better education than state school kids because we pay for it.

Welfare should not be used to prop up our wealthiest institutions it should be used solely for helping the most disadvantaged in our community and nothing else. That way we can use our own money to make our own choices instead of having it eaten up in taxes and then wasted on those that do not need it.

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Go the Bunnies

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades Reply #179 - Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 9:41am No. I don't see why every child in Australia should not receive funding for education. Then if we want to pay more on top to gain an advantage then so be it. There has to be a tiered system. That's just how market capitalism works.
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