Australian Politics Forum - Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #90 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:23am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:24pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:11pm:

so why would you have someone's taxes going to pay for somebody else's kid to be educated but see none of that money going to your own children?

And that's not how it works by the way - for very good reason.

You reckon you earn so much then why shouldnt you pay your own way?

SOB

This isnt about me personally, its about what is right and fair.
People should not have to see their taxes go to other people's kids and yet none to their own.

I hold the view on education and healthcare the same.

Base level funding for all.
Private funding on top of the base to get the additional service.

Its completely ridiculous. Private businesses should look after themselves and then all the money can be used to improve the public systems. Especially health. In QLD its spread too thin and now theres long waiting lists in private.

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #91 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:26am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:35pm:

bugger it that's how it is.

Smithy I was paying friggen $4,500 per month mortgage in AUS.
You don't think the help came in handy?!

Your choice

Buy a fvckin smaller house.

Simple

It was 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom.
We're not talking about fking Gatcombe Park Estate here.

That's the cost of houses these days.

Normal is 3 BR 2 bathroom. Not 4. 4 are actually rare and way more expensive. But you already knew that.

SOB

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KJT1981

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #92 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 8:08am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:26am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:37pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:35pm:

bugger it that's how it is.

Smithy I was paying friggen $4,500 per month mortgage in AUS.
You don't think the help came in handy?!

Your choice

Buy a fvckin smaller house.

Simple

It was 4 bedroom, 2 bathroom.
We're not talking about fking Gatcombe Park Estate here.

That's the cost of houses these days.

Normal is 3 BR 2 bathroom. Not 4. 4 are actually rare and way more expensive. But you already knew that.

SOB

Jesus Miss Borg. Where have you been for the last twenty years?

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aquascoot

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #93 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 9:13am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:23am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:24pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:11pm:

so why would you have someone's taxes going to pay for somebody else's kid to be educated but see none of that money going to your own children?

And that's not how it works by the way - for very good reason.

You reckon you earn so much then why shouldnt you pay your own way?

SOB

This isnt about me personally, its about what is right and fair.
People should not have to see their taxes go to other people's kids and yet none to their own.

I hold the view on education and healthcare the same.

Base level funding for all.
Private funding on top of the base to get the additional service.

Its completely ridiculous. Private businesses should look after themselves and then all the money can be used to improve the public systems. Especially health. In QLD its spread too thin and now theres long waiting lists in private.

SOB

the morale in public health and public education is at an all time low .
all the good people leave and all the dregs (who couldnt get a job in the private sector remain).
then an army of bureaucrats come in to try and stop the sinking ship but they just make morale worse.
then funding restrictions kick in coz all the money is blown on an ever increasing bureacracy and army of clerks whose real job is to produce spin for the government of the day.

seen it all before,

the cream will always exit a rubbish system and they have. and the more cream that exits, the remaining cream is left to burnout Cheesy

i was talking to a private radiologist a few weeks ago. i said, how do you go recruiting staff.

he said, we just go up the public hospital and pinch the cream. offer them $100,000 more than they get working for the public system

you forget borg that just the payroll debacle has cost qld health over $1 billion (yes thats billion) to fix. and it is still wrong. you think the cream are going to work in a system like that.

you cant fix it with money. its f'ed. Cheesy

good luck if you use it. my prediction is an early death.

good luck if you use public schools. my prediction is your kids should become expert burger flippers.

again, the whole reason to get into private schools is to get your kids mixing wioth motivated teaches, motivated parents, motivated kids.

public equals f'ed.

just admit it , stop funding it, let it die

and let the cream do their thing.

we will be compassionate enough to treat the public patients if you want to send em our way (AND THAT< SPOT IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN) you heard it here. Wink

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #94 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 9:45am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:32pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:19pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

If you pay x amount in tax - are you not entitled to expect something back?

No you are not.

Simple end of story

Taxation is not some sort of forced saving nor is it a service industry.

actually, you are. taxation is not ever intended to be a method of wealth redistribution. It is meant to be how you fund the essential services of govt of which one of the PRIME areas is education. it is govts intrinsic responsibility to fund education. it is not however essential that they provide the service. If this were so then welfare should be provided not in cash but in food stamps to govt run and owned food stores. but it isnt is it? it is provided in cash wher you shoose where to spend it. education money is exactly the same.

LOL, I was going to go down the,"Tax you pay buys the society you want" angle, but I was talking to Andrei and anything not framed in the context of self is either not understood or ignored Wink

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades Reply #95 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 9:46am You missed my point that private is just as bad. SOB
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Swagman

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #96 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 11:39am

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:19pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

If you pay x amount in tax - are you not entitled to expect something back?

No you are not.

Simple end of story

Taxation is not some sort of forced saving nor is it a service industry.

Progressive taxation is slavery.

Taxation is supposed to pay for the cost of Govt.

Are we not all supposed to be equal in a democracy?

Everyone should contribute equally to the cost of Govt. Taxation is basically a membership fee.

Who legislates for progressive taxation? The majority rules in a (flawed) democracy (An Ochlocracy). The majority just happens to be those that pay the minority of tax. As the majority they can use their numbers to (legally) thieve the income from the minority that pay the majority of tax.

They have then brainwashed the unwashed via public schools and subtle indoctrination methods into thinking that theft is perfectly OK when the majority agrees.... Angry

It is wrong. It is tyranny. It is a form of slavery. Those that pay more than an equal share of tax are in effect being forced to work for nothing.

Being forced to work for nothing is S L A V E R Y

You Lefties are slavers. Gillard is trying to be pharaoh and her humongous money wasting exercises like the NBN and school monuments are her version of the pyramids..... Sad

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Lobo

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #97 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 1:26pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:26pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:24pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

actually SAVES the govt tens of billions of dollars a year.

firstly, the figure given was $8.3 B not 10's off .... nice try

secondly, that figure is given by the Independent Schools Council of Australia, do you think they might try talking themselves up so as to ask for more funding? get real longlooser ... the truth is that the only ones making that claim is the private schools themselves ... everyone else knows it's a load of sh it... look at Sweden, considered the best education system in the world with the best results .. why ? no private schools.

Yeah I am sure thats the reason.

Strangely, I have always found people who dislike the private school system are those who never went to one.

Those of us who did have always been a fan of them.

I went to a private primary school so there goes that theory

SOB

the difference is that the rest of us went to highscool as well,

so easy...

In your case that could be debatable...

Cheesy

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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Lobo

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #98 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 1:33pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:09pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:48pm:

You have already said you went to a state school full of wogs but anyway thats not the point.

The system should be very simple -

1) Every child should have the benefit of taxpayer's money to go towards their education.
2) Every school and I mean EVERY school should receive the same funding per pupil.
3) Then if schools wish to charge on top of that for additional quality of either school or quality of teaching etc, trips - then they can do that.

That way, the private school kids receive the better education and advantage - but they have to pay for it.

What on earth is the point of having only some schools receive funding from the Government and others receive nothing?

Completely defeats the object of paying to get a better education.

Make it a level playing field for Government funding.

Every school receives the same as each other.
Public or private.

Please refrain from the childish name calling Johnny, you do it a lot lately and just reflect poorly on you.

What a stupid post. Private schools are exactly that - private. If you want to be a fool and then pay for a private school then go ahead and do that. But don't expect the public purse to cover you.

Market capitalism is fundamental.
You pay for something, you get a service in return.

Now you would have an absurd system where I pay a lot in tax but then see neither of my children receive any of that money to their education??

The funding goes to give someone else's kid a free one at my expense?

Thats the absurd system you prefer.

NO.

Funding to all.
Then you pay for a private education above the base level standard.

Answer this - why would you pay to give your child an education if they are not going to receive better quality and more than public kids?

Thats the system that we live in - just like your tax goes towards welfare and yet you should no tbe entitled to welfare. Same thing. It works. It strengthens the economy to do it. And paying tax doesn't mean you get something in return.

PRivate Schools should receive $0. By definition they should not be entitled to any government funding.

How about distributing 50% of the total education budget between ALL schools on a per student basis?
Then the remaining 50% divvied up between the public schools on a 'needs' basis.

Just a thought....

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #99 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:40pm

aquascoot wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:48pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:26pm:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:24pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

actually SAVES the govt tens of billions of dollars a year.

firstly, the figure given was $8.3 B not 10's off .... nice try

secondly, that figure is given by the Independent Schools Council of Australia, do you think they might try talking themselves up so as to ask for more funding? get real longlooser ... the truth is that the only ones making that claim is the private schools themselves ... everyone else knows it's a load of sh it... look at Sweden, considered the best education system in the world with the best results .. why ? no private schools.

Yeah I am sure thats the reason.

Strangely, I have always found people who dislike the private school system are those who never went to one.

Those of us who did have always been a fan of them.

I went to a private primary school so there goes that theory

SOB

the difference is that the rest of us went to highscool as well,

so easy...

The public high school was better quality than the local private one. The private one was rife with religion. Actually so was the public one but not quite as bad. . . . .

SOB

public school "rife " with religion?? you sure??

its SOB remember... his memory is full of gaps which he fills in with fabrications and imagination.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #100 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:41pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 7:10pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:24pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

actually SAVES the govt tens of billions of dollars a year.

firstly, the figure given was $8.3 B not 10's off .... nice try

secondly, that figure is given by the Independent Schools Council of Australia, do you think they might try talking themselves up so as to ask for more funding? get real longlooser ... the truth is that the only ones making that claim is the private schools themselves ... everyone else knows it's a load of sh it... look at Sweden, considered the best education system in the world with the best results .. why ? no private schools.

wrong on so many levels
1) you claim Frasers debt was $40B based on a blog instead of Treasurys figures but somehow the independent schools figures are wrong (despite nobody but the education union disagreeing with it)
2) it is FINLAND not Sweden and the reason there are next to no private schools is because all the public schools are run using the private school model

So congratulations. you gave two reasons that comprehensively torpedo your own argument.

Do you ever know what you're talking about? Your comment shows complete lack of understanding of the Nordic education system.

he was referring to FINLANDS system (but misnamed it). and if you wish to correct me then do so, but using a few actual facts.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #101 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:43pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 7:12pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:28pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:09pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:48pm:

You have already said you went to a state school full of wogs but anyway thats not the point.

The system should be very simple -

1) Every child should have the benefit of taxpayer's money to go towards their education.
2) Every school and I mean EVERY school should receive the same funding per pupil.
3) Then if schools wish to charge on top of that for additional quality of either school or quality of teaching etc, trips - then they can do that.

That way, the private school kids receive the better education and advantage - but they have to pay for it.

What on earth is the point of having only some schools receive funding from the Government and others receive nothing?

Completely defeats the object of paying to get a better education.

Make it a level playing field for Government funding.

Every school receives the same as each other.
Public or private.

Please refrain from the childish name calling Johnny, you do it a lot lately and just reflect poorly on you.

What a stupid post. Private schools are exactly that - private. If you want to be a fool and then pay for a private school then go ahead and do that. But don't expect the public purse to cover you.

Market capitalism is fundamental.
You pay for something, you get a service in return.

Now you would have an absurd system where I pay a lot in tax but then see neither of my children receive any of that money to their education??

The funding goes to give someone else's kid a free one at my expense?

Thats the absurd system you prefer.

NO.

Funding to all.
Then you pay for a private education above the base level standard.

Answer this - why would you pay to give your child an education if they are not going to receive better quality and more than public kids?

Thats the system that we live in - just like your tax goes towards welfare and yet you should no tbe entitled to welfare. Same thing. It works. It strengthens the economy to do it. And paying tax doesn't mean you get something in return.

PRivate Schools should receive $0. By definition they should not be entitled to any government funding.

so are you happy to pay $9B a year in extra tax because private schools dont get govt funding? does that sounds like a good plan and a good investment? on what planet does paying MORE to get a lower outcome make sense. the answer is: planet lefty.

That figure came out of the toilet did it?

its called logic and you should try it. it woudl cost $9B per year extra to fund public schools for the flood of ex-private students if govt funding was removed. therefore (and here is the logic bit) it woudl eb safe to assume that taxes would need to rise to cover this amount.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #102 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:44pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 7:10pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:24pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

actually SAVES the govt tens of billions of dollars a year.

firstly, the figure given was $8.3 B not 10's off .... nice try

secondly, that figure is given by the Independent Schools Council of Australia, do you think they might try talking themselves up so as to ask for more funding? get real longlooser ... the truth is that the only ones making that claim is the private schools themselves ... everyone else knows it's a load of sh it... look at Sweden, considered the best education system in the world with the best results .. why ? no private schools.

wrong on so many levels
1) you claim Frasers debt was $40B based on a blog instead of Treasurys figures but somehow the independent schools figures are wrong (despite nobody but the education union disagreeing with it)
2) it is FINLAND not Sweden and the reason there are next to no private schools is because all the public schools are run using the private school model

So congratulations. you gave two reasons that comprehensively torpedo your own argument.

Do you ever know what you're talking about? Your comment shows complete lack of understanding of the Nordic education system.

he was referring to FINLANDS system (but misnamed it). and if you wish to correct me then do so, but using a few actual facts.

I thought his facts were pretty clear ...

Your comment shows complete lack of understanding of the Nordic education system

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #103 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:45pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 11:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:24pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

actually SAVES the govt tens of billions of dollars a year.

firstly, the figure given was $8.3 B not 10's off .... nice try

secondly, that figure is given by the Independent Schools Council of Australia, do you think they might try talking themselves up so as to ask for more funding? get real longlooser ... the truth is that the only ones making that claim is the private schools themselves ... everyone else knows it's a load of sh it... look at Sweden, considered the best education system in the world with the best results .. why ? no private schools.

wrong on so many levels
1) you claim Frasers debt was $40B based on a blog instead of Treasurys figures but somehow the independent schools figures are wrong (despite nobody but the education union disagreeing with it)
2) it is FINLAND not Sweden and the reason there are next to no private schools is because all the public schools are run using the private school model

So congratulations. you gave two reasons that comprehensively torpedo your own argument.

What 2 reasons dopey? All you did was have a rant, you haven't blown anything out of your teacup let alone the water ...

the figures are provided by independent schools board ... Independent schools board has it's own agenda and unless the figures are supported elsewhere, you cannot seriously give them a lot of credence.... why not supply treasury figures dopey? since they mean so much to you

Sweden or Finland, does it matter? ... they have no private schools and have the best education system ... the point still stands. what part is difficult for you?

the point dear blog-reader is that it isnt the fact that they are PRIVATE which makes them so much more succesful than public schools but rather the model they employ. Finlands education system is virtually identical to the private school model with independant schools, virtually no education dept at all, and hire and fire rights for the principal etc.

this has all been covered before.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Elite Schools Spend $20 Million A Year On Upgrades
Reply #104 - Mar 19^th, 2013 at 4:47pm

John Smith wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 11:23pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 6:32pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:19pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 18^th, 2013 at 2:15pm:

If you pay x amount in tax - are you not entitled to expect something back?

No you are not.

Simple end of story

Taxation is not some sort of forced saving nor is it a service industry.

actually, you are. taxation is not ever intended to be a method of wealth redistribution. It is meant to be how you fund the essential services of govt of which one of the PRIME areas is education. it is govts intrinsic responsibility to fund education. it is not however essential that they provide the service. If this were so then welfare should be provided not in cash but in food stamps to govt run and owned food stores. but it isnt is it? it is provided in cash wher you shoose where to spend it. education money is exactly the same.

that does not however mean the government has to fund elitist schools for posh rich kids ... the govt. provides for your kids education in the form of a public education system, if you chose to go elsewhere the choice is yours. there is no responsibility, intrinsic or otherwise, for them to fund that.

even if you accept your flawed argument you still have to explain why you are happy to p[ay $9B pa extra (and therefore in taxes) to fund a education system with substantially LOWER outcomes?

the reasons no one - not even the loopy Greens - support that is for just that reason. ONly a madman or an ideologically bound nincompoop would support paying 30% more to get 30% less back.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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