Australian Politics Forum - Crean to lead.............

chicken_lipsforme Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7090 Townsville NQ Gender:	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #15 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:43am Somehow I don't think Simon Crean will be one little bit interested in leading Labor's "Forlorn Hope" at the next election, just so he can stand down and allow Rudd or Shorten to take over the party in September. Juliar's stuck with the job for another six months. Now that's karma.
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Dnarever

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #16 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:49am

chicken_lipsforme wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:43am:

Somehow I don't think Simon Crean will be one little bit interested in leading Labor's "Forlorn Hope" at the next election, just so he can stand down and allow Rudd or Shorten to take over the party in September.
Juliar's stuck with the job for another six months.
Now that's karma.

Now that's karma

If there is anything to Karma then I feel sorry for Abbott. Poor bstd

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #17 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 9:19am Simon Crean.... Dear God!
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96694	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #18 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 9:19am longweekend58 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:01am: Crean is actually by far the best choice. He is uninspiring... Ah. A leader for Longy.
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #19 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 9:59am I think I saw in a poll that Labor voters preferred Rudd over Gillard But without Rudd in the picture preferred Gillard over any other candidate
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #20 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:10am What a shambles that would be. Revert back to a dodgy old failed Union man like Crean. He is utterly useless. They are better off with the current bird in charge. Rudd is their ONLY hope. They won't do it though, they'd have to lose half the cabinet.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #21 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:16am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:35am:

the problem isnt the polls although they are wrong by a huge margin. the problem is that bringing back Rudd would require sacking half the front bench and beginning a civil war unlike anything since the 1950s. the polls are just on the simplistic notion of replacing gillard with rudd and ignoring the extraordinary events that would follow. the only saving option would be for Rudd to go to an immediate election before the civil ware destroyed everything. But Rudds ego would prevent him from doing that.

Nope, Rudd can never be leader again - not with the entire cabinet openly opposing him.

I agree there are massive problems for labor if they reinstate Rudd now while they are still in government. However after the election when labor will be in opposition, he will have a better opportunity to rebuild his reputation and win over the caucus.

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Maqqa

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #22 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:16am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:10am:

What a shambles that would be.

Revert back to a dodgy old failed Union man like Crean.

He is utterly useless. They are better off with the current bird in charge.

Rudd is their ONLY hope. They won't do it though, they'd have to lose half the cabinet.

They are bringing out an old war horse as a sacrificial lamb

They'll slaughter him like they slaughtered Rudd after the election

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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corporate_whitey Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 8896 Archivist	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #23 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:17am olitics is being dogged by the Atheist populism problem which represents a minority voice in the country but is dominating the political discourse of the right and the left and corrupting the system..A few agitators whipping up haggard old causes to rally the masses around to their own political ends...
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #24 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:17am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:16am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:35am:

the problem isnt the polls although they are wrong by a huge margin. the problem is that bringing back Rudd would require sacking half the front bench and beginning a civil war unlike anything since the 1950s. the polls are just on the simplistic notion of replacing gillard with rudd and ignoring the extraordinary events that would follow. the only saving option would be for Rudd to go to an immediate election before the civil ware destroyed everything. But Rudds ego would prevent him from doing that.

Nope, Rudd can never be leader again - not with the entire cabinet openly opposing him.

I agree there are massive problems for labor if they reinstate Rudd now while they are still in government. However after the election when labor will be in opposition, he will have a better opportunity to rebuild his reputation and win over the caucus.

Will he have enough MPs to build an opposition cabinet?

QLD Labor needed to borrow Coalition members to field a cricket side.

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Doctor Jolly Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3808	Re: Crean to lead............. Reply #25 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:22am The interesting thing about Rudd was that when he became leader in 2007 (or 06 ?) he was unpopular in the party then too. He's not factional, so no faction likes him. But they chose him because they were desperate for a win. They are desperate again.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #26 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:47am

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

The interesting thing about Rudd was that when he became leader in 2007 (or 06 ?) he was unpopular in the party then too. He's not factional, so no faction likes him. But they chose him because they were desperate for a win.

They are desperate again.

At that time you had not had a series of Cabinet Ministers call him a traitor, unbalanced and a man who trashed Labor ideals though.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #27 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:52am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:47am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

The interesting thing about Rudd was that when he became leader in 2007 (or 06 ?) he was unpopular in the party then too. He's not factional, so no faction likes him. But they chose him because they were desperate for a win.

They are desperate again.

At that time you had not had a series of Cabinet Ministers call him a traitor, unbalanced and a man who trashed Labor ideals though.

No publically anyway.

None of those claims seem to put the public off him.
John Howard was sarcastically nicknamed "Honest John" for his lying by his own party members before he became successful.
Polticians forget pretty quickly if their is something in it for them.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #28 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 10:59am

No but you have to see the fundamental difference between their view on Rudd internally and now - when you have had a series of Labor people (not inferior ones either, Swan, Crean, Emerson, Plibersek, Roxon) absolutely trash the guy publically.

They took aim at him and called him stuff that previously has only been reserved for opponents.

There is no way most of the cabinet could stay under Rudd.
If I was Rudd I wouldn't want them to either.

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longweekend58

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Re: Crean to lead.............
Reply #29 - Mar 20^th, 2013 at 3:00pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:43am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:35am:

skippy. wrote on Mar 20^th, 2013 at 8:26am:

Crean was never given a fair chance in the first place, he would probably have a better chance than Gillard. But the fact remains, the same polls that say phony tony will be PM say Rudd could beat him, so Labor are morons not to go with Rudd, even though he's a knob.

the problem isnt the polls although they are wrong by a huge margin. the problem is that bringing back Rudd would require sacking half the front bench and beginning a civil war unlike anything since the 1950s. the polls are just on the simplistic notion of replacing gillard with rudd and ignoring the extraordinary events that would follow. the only saving option would be for Rudd to go to an immediate election before the civil ware destroyed everything. But Rudds ego would prevent him from doing that.

Nope, Rudd can never be leader again - not with the entire cabinet openly opposing him.

History is littered with government’s overcoming the same position.

Howard was very much hated among the Liberals when he took over - he was seen as a stop gap only meant to lose the election.

Abbott came from the bottom of the barrel when they were out of options as well, he wasn't well liked. All the problems he has faced his party knew all about first, women, assault, lacking competence and vision etc.

Political parties rally behind their best option whether they like it or not.

the difference that you seem to ignore was that Howard took the libs to near-unprecedented success and Abbot as Opposition leader has actually been more successful than ANY such leader in history. These are hardly examples to be embarrassed of.

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