Australian Politics Forum - Why is Rudd hated?

Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #45 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 5:47am

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 11:40pm:

Kat wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

We're fecked, whoever wins.

It doesn't really matter anyway. This country is not undergoing a crisis. We're not having the same problems as many countries in Europe. If the only crisis is mediocre politicians then that is far better than financial and economic turmoil. We don't need reform as badly as Europe does. Our country isn't at a crossroads and nor is it at a point where it needs to make hard decisions. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe the reason why we've got mediocre politicians is because there's nothing much for them to really do in government.

We will be if abbott gets in

SOB

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: Why is Rudd hated? Reply #46 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 5:48am Rudd isnt hated. Some ppl dont like him just like lots of pollies. I think he has more of a "following" than most other pollies too. SOB
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Armchair_Politician Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26471 Gender:	Re: Why is Rudd hated? Reply #47 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:01am Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm: Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader. Neither does Tony Abbott. You sure? He's leading the Coalition very effectively. He destroyed Rudd and is about to do the same not only just to Gillard but Labor as a whole.
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Mnemonic

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #48 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:53am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:01am:

He destroyed Rudd and is about to do the same not only just to Gillard but Labor as a whole.

Abbott didn't destroy Rudd. The Labor Party did when they dumped him because of his lack of management skills. Rudd was a diplomat. That's his greatest strength: doing negotiations, making deals and making proposals. Management and administration wasn't his thing. That's why Wayne Swan has always been treasurer, because he never saw himself as a PM. Out of all the people in the Federal Labor Government since 2007, which one of the prominent Labor figures has kept his job the longest? Wayne Swan of course!!!

Rudd's skill in making deals was what enabled him to win the 2007 election. He made a good deal with the Australian people, but he wasn't very good at delivering it because he wasn't very good at managing his subordinates. His Cabinet and ministers only kept him so long as he was able to keep the polls up.

Who knows what was happening behind close doors? Rudd was probably blowing up every 5 minutes, not keep his cool and not keeping his composure. It was really embarrassing. Remember that leaked video of Kevin?

By the time Labor dumped Rudd all the damage had been done. The Rudd Government was in a crisis. All Abbott did was push it over the edge. Abbott was just in the right place and in the right time. A little flick of Tony's finger and the dominoes started falling over the other, one by one. The Rudd Government facade could not be maintained. It was not sustainable and it buckled under pressure.

Rudd's demise wasn't the work of just one person. Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull and the Greens were just as responsible for his demise as Abbott.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #49 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:56am

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 8:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader.

Neither does Tony Abbott.

given that he has been the most effective opposition LEADER in history, that claim looks rather silly.

Far from it. The qualities required to lead a government are quite different from those effective in leading an opposition.

Abbott is a wrecker not a builder.

since the only time you have seen him as leader is as OPPOSITION leader then your argument is rather invalid. and the qualities you refer to are actually very similar. Leadership is just leadership. Where it is practiced is relatively immaterial.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #50 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:58am

Kat wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader.

Neither does Tony Abbott.

given that he has been the most effective opposition LEADER in history, that claim looks rather silly.

Proves nothing.

My cat could lead an effective Opposition against these ass-hats.

But I wouldn't vote for my cat as PM either.

Nor will I EVER vote for an Abbott-led Con-alition.

I'll be voting either Independent, or informal.

If, as seems inevitable, the Howardians get a second bite at
the cherry, it certainly won't be down to me.

Nor will it be if Labor somehow squeaks home.

We're fecked, whoever wins.

A) abbott started with the libs 16% BEHIND - not in friont
B) some of labors troubles are the results of an effective opposition.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #51 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 8:00am

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:53am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:01am:

He destroyed Rudd and is about to do the same not only just to Gillard but Labor as a whole.

Abbott didn't destroy Rudd. The Labor Party did when they dumped him because of his lack of management skills. Rudd was a diplomat. That's his greatest strength: doing negotiations, making deals and making proposals. Management and administration wasn't his thing. That's why Wayne Swan has always been treasurer, because he never saw himself as a PM. Out of all the people in the Federal Labor Government since 2007, which one of the prominent Labor figures has kept his job the longest? Wayne Swan of course!!!

Rudd's skill in making deals was what enabled him to win the 2007 election. He made a good deal with the Australian people, but he wasn't very good at delivering it because he wasn't very good at managing his subordinates. His Cabinet and ministers only kept him so long as he was able to keep the polls up.

Who knows what was happening behind close doors? Rudd was probably blowing up every 5 minutes, not keep his cool and not keeping his composure. It was really embarrassing. Remember that leaked video of Kevin?

By the time Labor dumped Rudd all the damage had been done. The Rudd Government was in a crisis. All Abbott did was push it over the edge. Abbott was just in the right place and in the right time. A little flick of Tony's finger and the dominoes started falling over the other, one by one. The Rudd Government facade could not be maintained. It was not sustainable and it buckled under pressure.

Rudd's demise wasn't the work of just one person. Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull and the Greens were just as responsible for his demise as Abbott.

Rudds lead was unassailable until Abbott came along. you can argue the reasons all you like but it remains true that rudds slide and demise happened only when Abbott came along.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #52 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 8:00am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:56am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 8:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader.

Neither does Tony Abbott.

given that he has been the most effective opposition LEADER in history, that claim looks rather silly.

Far from it. The qualities required to lead a government are quite different from those effective in leading an opposition.

Abbott is a wrecker not a builder.

since the only time you have seen him as leader is as OPPOSITION leader then your argument is rather invalid. and the qualities you refer to are actually very similar. Leadership is just leadership. Where it is practiced is relatively immaterial.

Abbotts most effective act in Government was to wreck One Nation. Abbotts reputationas an effective attack dog - wrecker was built over his 20 years in Parliament and not just his term as opposition leader. It is in fact a reliable indication.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #53 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 8:04am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader.

Neither does Tony Abbott.

given that he has been the most effective opposition LEADER in history, that claim looks rather silly.

Most effective in the polls based on 100% negativity but in reality probably the worst opposition leader ever in every reguard based on substance where the problem is that he has none.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #54 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 10:35am

Dnarever wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader.

Neither does Tony Abbott.

given that he has been the most effective opposition LEADER in history, that claim looks rather silly.

Most effective in the polls based on 100% negativity but in reality probably the worst opposition leader ever in every regard based on substance where the problem is that he has none.

the role of opposition leader is to oppose the govt of the day and force better policy and behaviour. What seems to rankle you is that he has done exactly that with more effectiveness than any opposition leader before him. Can you think of an opposition leader that took his party from well behind to well in front? Rudd didnt? Howard was already behind. Howard didnt, Keating was already behind. Hawke didnt either although he was in the job literally and hour before the election was called. Fraser was probably the last opposition leader to actually change the course of power. and then there is abbot. from 16% behind to 12% in front. BEST PERFORMANCE EVER.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #55 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:40am

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 10:35am:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 8:04am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:47pm:

Rudd simply didn't have the qualities to be an effective leader.

Neither does Tony Abbott.

given that he has been the most effective opposition LEADER in history, that claim looks rather silly.

Most effective in the polls based on 100% negativity but in reality probably the worst opposition leader ever in every regard based on substance where the problem is that he has none.

the role of opposition leader is to oppose the govt of the day and force better policy and behaviour. What seems to rankle you is that he has done exactly that with more effectiveness than any opposition leader before him. Can you think of an opposition leader that took his party from well behind to well in front? Rudd didnt? Howard was already behind. Howard didnt, Keating was already behind. Hawke didnt either although he was in the job literally and hour before the election was called. Fraser was probably the last opposition leader to actually change the course of power. and then there is abbot. from 16% behind to 12% in front. BEST PERFORMANCE EVER.

So you agree he has no substance. You are still fixated on polls and negativity.

the role of opposition leader is to oppose

It was his best skill even when in government - he was the attack dog, His biggest achievment while in government was to put down One Nation.

Abbott is clearly a one trick pony and you can't teach an old attack dog new tricks.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 59378 Here Gender:	Re: Why is Rudd hated? Reply #56 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:42am Re: Why is Rudd hated? I see him a lot like Abbott - there are plenty of good people who would make a terrible PM these are just two of them.
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Why is Rudd hated? Reply #57 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:43am Dnarever wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:42am: Re: Why is Rudd hated? I see him a lot like Abbott - there are plenty of good people who would make a terrible PM these are just two of them. Gough Whitlam also springs to mind.
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Dnarever

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Re: Why is Rudd hated?
Reply #58 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:50am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:43am:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 11:42am:

Re: Why is Rudd hated?

I see him a lot like Abbott - there are plenty of good people who would make a terrible PM these are just two of them.

Gough Whitlam also springs to mind.

Silly comment - Gough was a reformer - he achieved a lot in a short space of time, one of the very best leaders we had, his big problem was that his team let him down and his mistake was to allow the Fraser opposition to bully the government.

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olde.sault

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Re: Why is Ruhedd hated?
Reply #59 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:02pm

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 4:15am:

Amadd wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2013 at 12:05am:

I'd be more inclined to trust Crean's word than Rudd's, and going by what Crean was saying on the radio today, Rudd is far more interested in himself than the party.

It seems that Rudd was prepared to put the heads of others on the line just to have a peek at the numbers that he may have, and then decline to stand when he realised that the numbers weren't there, falling back on his bs "won't challenge the leadership" comment.

Abbott commented that "It's time for the adults to take charge".
I think that he was correct in saying that because we need the best people available doing the job for the country, not constant reshuffling of positions based on who supports who within a political party.
Contrary to popular belief, we vote for a team, not a PM.

Obviously you prefer to listen to those say what you want to hear according to the agenda. Abbott of course is going to trash him - abbott trashes anybody that might be a threat to him.

SOB

Abbott usually trashes policies, not those who introduce them (because of union pressure). He has commented about Gillard side-stepping the truth - it is so hard to see anything good in her.

Is she good to her pet dog? (I wasn't talking about Tim).

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