Australian Politics Forum - Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?

Infarction

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #15 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:03pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:54pm:

I can't figure out how you are getting to that point but either way, given the policy now days and the pacific solution are all but the same (asides from tpv's, althoughi have read the current alternative is worse), what are the libs offering that is different that will stop the boats?

Clearly rehashing the pacific solution won't work, and in your answer, remember about the conventions and our obligations.

Total Arrivals = arrival by BOATS + arrivals by AIR

boats and air because that's the only viable way to get to Australia

Not relevant.

Now, what are the libs offering that is different (asides from tpv's) and if you are still running the argument that TPV's were effective, how many TPV's were given to asylum seekers and how many of those were subsequently sent home?

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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #16 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:05pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:54pm:

Oh, and have a go at bringing up some actual stats regarding how many TPV's were given to asylum seekers and how many of those were actually sent home.

But the 11,000 TPV stats were given to TOTAL ARRIVALS

Total Arrivals = arrivals by BOATS + arrivals by AIR

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Infarction Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 509	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #17 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:07pm Cool. Now, can you address the questions? If you don't know what it is you are talking about it's ok to say so.
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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #18 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:07pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:54pm:

I can't figure out how you are getting to that point but either way, given the policy now days and the pacific solution are all but the same (asides from tpv's, althoughi have read the current alternative is worse), what are the libs offering that is different that will stop the boats?

Clearly rehashing the pacific solution won't work, and in your answer, remember about the conventions and our obligations.

Total Arrivals = arrival by BOATS + arrivals by AIR

boats and air because that's the only viable way to get to Australia

Not relevant.

Now, what are the libs offering that is different (asides from tpv's) and if you are still running the argument that TPV's were effective, how many TPV's were given to asylum seekers and how many of those were subsequently sent home?

You dismiss it as irrelevant - but the stats don't lie

boat arrivals with the TPV policy was 1,500

boat arrivals without the TPV policy is 34,000 and counting

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #19 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:08pm Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:07pm: Cool. Now, can you address the questions? If you don't know what it is you are talking about it's ok to say so. We are talking about policies impacting the number of boat arrivals in this thread
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Infarction

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #20 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:09pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:03pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:00pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:54pm:

I can't figure out how you are getting to that point but either way, given the policy now days and the pacific solution are all but the same (asides from tpv's, althoughi have read the current alternative is worse), what are the libs offering that is different that will stop the boats?

Clearly rehashing the pacific solution won't work, and in your answer, remember about the conventions and our obligations.

Total Arrivals = arrival by BOATS + arrivals by AIR

boats and air because that's the only viable way to get to Australia

Not relevant.

Now, what are the libs offering that is different (asides from tpv's) and if you are still running the argument that TPV's were effective, how many TPV's were given to asylum seekers and how many of those were subsequently sent home?

You dismiss it as irrelevant - but the stats don't lie

boat arrivals with the TPV policy was 1,500

boat arrivals without the TPV policy is 34,000 and counting

Well then, i am sure you can produce the stats regarding how many tpv's were given to asylum seekers and how many were subsequently sent home to show the effectiveness of the particular TPV part of the policy.

You can can't you? Don't tell me after all of this you don't actually know.

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Infarction

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #21 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:11pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:08pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

Cool.

Now, can you address the questions? If you don't know what it is you are talking about it's ok to say so.

We are talking about policies impacting the number of boat arrivals in this thread

Ok then, that's the second part of the questions you are desperately avoiding.

What are the libs offering that is different to what we currently have, given both the current policy and the PS are very very similar now, that will stop the boats.

Don't forget our international obligations when answering.

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« Last Edit: Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:20pm by Infarction »

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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #22 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:19pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:11pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:08pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

Cool.

Now, can you address the questions? If you don't know what it is you are talking about it's ok to say so.

We are talking about policies impacting the number of boat arrivals in this thread

Ok then, that's the second part of the questions you are desperately avoiding.

What are the libs offering that is different to what we currently have, given both policies are very very similar now, that will stop the boats.

Don't forget our international obligations when answering.

So now we are moving onto - how will the LIBs fix this

(1) Fully implement the Pacific Solution
(2) The Pacific Solution was implemented between 2002-2007 without any court proceedings to our international obligations. Compare that to Gillard's position in the last 5 years I would say the LIBs got it right
(3) Saying Labor's Houston Recommendation is similar to the Pacific Solution therefore should work exactly like the Pacific Solution is disingenuous. This is like trying to say a soy-milkshake is similar to a milkshake therefore should taste the same

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Infarction Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 509	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #23 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:21pm Ok then, explain to me what the main differences are between a full implementation of the PS and what we currently have. Should also point out that no appeal to the HC about the PS doesn't mean it's all good either. It means just that, it wasn't challenged.
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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #24 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:41pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

Ok then, explain to me what the main differences are between a full implementation of the PS and what we currently have.

Should also point out that no appeal to the HC about the PS doesn't mean it's all good either. It means just that, it wasn't challenged.

(1) No I am not going to dissect the PS for you against the 22 Houston Recommendations. Enough to say that the PS has a record of working and the HR does not based on stats

(2) If one gets court challenges and the other one does not - should tell you which one meets our obligations better

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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #25 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:57pm

http://humanrights.gov.au/legal/submissions/migration20060522.html

A 2006 Report by the Australian Human Rights Commission showed that of the 1509 Asylum Seekers sent to Nauru by that time,

586 were granted Australian resettlement (39%),
360 resettled in New Zealand(24%),
19 resettled in Sweden(1.2%),
10 in Canada(<1%) and
4 in Norway(<1%).
482 Asylum Seekers (32%) were deemed not genuine refugees and sent home

This shows that an illegals looking to country shop Australia has a 39% chance of success on the $10k they spent

You can add turn the boats back as one of the other deterrents

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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olde.sault

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #26 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 3:02pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:00pm:

It's not difficult. They changed the policy, that would have made a big difference, probably not the only reason but it's certainly a big one.

The policy is pretty much what the pacific solution was again but the boats still came and continue to do so.

Thats the issue now.

I disagree.

Howard didn't let these boatfuls onto Australian soil, they were sent to Narau and only given temporary visas. If Howard's rules are returned, the boat arrivals will dry up.

Incidentally, I doubt that Gillard takes orders from anyone (dumber than herself). Maybe from the exceptionally union heavies and I'm damned sure Abbott will do what he sees fit about the carbon tax, illegals and he'll let women make up their minds about abortion.

Catholic he may be but not unaware that some women have financial agendas when it came to their annual drops to the Welfare purse.

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Dnarever Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 58815 Here Gender:	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #27 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 3:06pm Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Maybe something to do with boat registration laws?
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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #28 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 3:07pm

olde.sault wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 1:00pm:

It's not difficult. They changed the policy, that would have made a big difference, probably not the only reason but it's certainly a big one.

The policy is pretty much what the pacific solution was again but the boats still came and continue to do so.

Thats the issue now.

I disagree.

Howard didn't let these boatfuls onto Australian soil, they were sent to Narau and only given temporary visas. If Howard's rules are returned, the boat arrivals will dry up.

Incidentally, I doubt that Gillard takes orders from anyone (dumber than herself). Maybe from the exceptionally union heavies and I'm damned sure Abbott will do what he sees fit about the carbon tax, illegals and he'll let women make up their minds about abortion.

Catholic he may be but not unaware that some women have financial agendas when it came to their annual drops to the Welfare purse.

That's about as good of an admission you are going to get from the left

To stretch this analysis to the difference between onshore and offshore processing may be pushing it

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Infarction

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #29 - Mar 24^th, 2013 at 3:12pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:41pm:

Infarction wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

Ok then, explain to me what the main differences are between a full implementation of the PS and what we currently have.

Should also point out that no appeal to the HC about the PS doesn't mean it's all good either. It means just that, it wasn't challenged.

(1) No I am not going to dissect the PS for you against the 22 Houston Recommendations. Enough to say that the PS has a record of working and the HR does not based on stats

(2) If one gets court challenges and the other one does not - should tell you which one meets our obligations better

You won't because you are relying heavily on tpv's and you can't produce any stats to back up any argument along those lines.

As for your second point, no, it just means it hasn't been tested in the HC as yet.

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