Australian Politics Forum - Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?

olde.sault

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #75 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:29am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 6:19am:

Infarction wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 5:32am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:19am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

Quote:

Lets look at the timeline for TPV, Pacific Solution and when the current Rudd/Gillard government stuffed it up

um yeah - you notice that big spike between 1999-2001? Thats TPVs.

My guess is that if pull factors have an effect, then Rudd/Gillard "stuffed it up" by indicating that they would no longer be towing boats back or using the navy to terrorise and endanger asylum seekers.

But thats not the pacific solution. Once again, I have yet to see any compelling reason why processing asylum seekers at Nauru or Manus Island under the actual pacific solution would have any effect. I definitely can't see why TPVs would have an effect - given that the introduction of TPVs saw an immediate and massive spike in arrivals.

The proof in the pudding is that Gillard's new Nauru solution - with added punitive measures (the 'no advantage' principle) has done diddly squat in reducing the boats - despite the libs promise that it would.

I apply a simple common sense formula to this:
1. treating asylum seekers like schit after we agree to process their claims does jack schit to the number of boat arrivals.
2. making it clear we will do everything to avoid processing asylum seekers claims in the first place by sending them back and endangering their lives does have an effect on the number of boat arrivals.

You do realise that TPV's plus the Pacific Solution stopped the boats, don't you???

And now pretty much that same policy, asides from tpv's, is not.

Now, as we have established, tpv's themselves wernt any type of a deterrent, why do you expect things to change if they are reintroduced?

Still can't bring yourself to admit that Howard got it right while Rudd/Gillard got it so badly wrong, eh? Grin

Labor heads are made up of different ingredients to that of the thinking public. These brain-dead knock any effective policies and promote Gillard's, no matter how much Gillard's harm the country.

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olde.sault

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #76 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:33am

red baron wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 4:12pm:

As I have said on another thread on this? Why do we have 2? The John Howard solution should be installed as soon as the Liberals are in office.

Refuel em, re provision them, then turn them around.

Once the people smugglers know they aren't going to set a single soul on land it will die on the vines.

People aren't going to stump upwards of 20 grand if they don't make it here. Word spreads fast in the people trade.

Apart from provisions and fuel, band-aid the leaks in their boats so that they'll get back to port.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #77 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 9:09am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:16am:

Operation Relex was rolled over into Operation Resolute in 2006 and operate until today - what's your point?

a little hard to grasp isn't it Maqqa?

Pacific Solution = TPVs plus offshore processing. This did *NOT* stop the boats. The boats had already been stopped by a deliberate campaign of terror and endangering lives. Note also that this campaign was only required in the first place because the implementation of TPVs had backfired so badly - causing a massive and unprecedented spike in arrivals.

Face facts, the only way we can stop the boats is by illegal terror tactics that puts real lives in danger. Not by merely shipping applicants to Nauru for processing.

olde.sault wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:29am:

Labor heads are made up of different ingredients to that of the thinking public. These brain-dead knock any effective policies and promote Gillard's, no matter how much Gillard's harm the country.

I am not a "labor head". If I was I would be promoting Gillard's new and improved Pacific Solution - with added punitive measures. I despise both parties refugee policies almost equally. Interesting too that labor's punitive measures such as the no advantage test had done nothing at all to reduce the boats. Like I said, as long as you agree to process claims, you can't stop the boats. Only sending claimants back at great risk to life and limb has been shown to be effective.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #78 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 9:48am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

a little hard to grasp isn't it Maqqa?

Pacific Solution = TPVs plus offshore processing. This did *NOT* stop the boats.

Technically - you are correct

If one boat arrive then it has not stopped the boats

According to the numbers from the Immigration department - it did reduce it significantly

So you go and argue with those numbers

If you are not happy with those results then don't vote for LIBs this year

Those who wants the numbers reduced will to 2007 figures will vote for the LIBs

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Infarction

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #79 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:09pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 7:12am:

Infarction wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 5:32am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:19am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 24^th, 2013 at 10:26pm:

Quote:

Lets look at the timeline for TPV, Pacific Solution and when the current Rudd/Gillard government stuffed it up

um yeah - you notice that big spike between 1999-2001? Thats TPVs.

My guess is that if pull factors have an effect, then Rudd/Gillard "stuffed it up" by indicating that they would no longer be towing boats back or using the navy to terrorise and endanger asylum seekers.

But thats not the pacific solution. Once again, I have yet to see any compelling reason why processing asylum seekers at Nauru or Manus Island under the actual pacific solution would have any effect. I definitely can't see why TPVs would have an effect - given that the introduction of TPVs saw an immediate and massive spike in arrivals.

The proof in the pudding is that Gillard's new Nauru solution - with added punitive measures (the 'no advantage' principle) has done diddly squat in reducing the boats - despite the libs promise that it would.

I apply a simple common sense formula to this:
1. treating asylum seekers like schit after we agree to process their claims does jack schit to the number of boat arrivals.
2. making it clear we will do everything to avoid processing asylum seekers claims in the first place by sending them back and endangering their lives does have an effect on the number of boat arrivals.

You do realise that TPV's plus the Pacific Solution stopped the boats, don't you???

And now pretty much that same policy, asides from tpv's, is not.

Now, as we have established, tpv's themselves wernt any type of a deterrent, why do you expect things to change if they are reintroduced?

Calling the Pacific Solution similar to the Houston Recommendation is like calling a diamond similar to cubic zirconia

The only difference is Gillard paid $6B for the cubic zirconia and the Pacific Solution cost $200M

Yet, asides from tpv's, you can't point out the differences between the current policy and the pacific solution.

Why?

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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #80 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:39pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Yet, asides from tpv's, you can't point out the differences between the current policy and the pacific solution.

Why?

Why should I?

It's enough to say the current system does not work.

If you think it's the same then it's up to you to prove it's the same

You make the claim and you want me to prove your claim? Cheesy

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Infarction Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 509	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #81 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:40pm I can't tell you what the differences are as i don't know what they are Maqqa. As i have said numerous times now And seemingly, neither do you. Which is odd given your argument here.
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #82 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:43pm Infarction wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:40pm: I can't tell you what the differences are as i don't know what they are Maqqa. As i have said numerous times now And seemingly, neither do you. Which is odd given your argument here. What do you think that argument is?
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Infarction

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #83 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:45pm

That boats will suddenly stop once the libs implement the pacific solution again.

You seem to think it's substantially different to what is currently in place, but asides from TPV's, which we have already proven are not much of a deterrent, i can't see what the differences are.

And you can't point out what they are.

That about sums it up

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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #84 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 1:05pm

Infarction wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:

That boats will suddenly stop once the libs implement the pacific solution again.

You seem to think it's substantially different to what is currently in place, but asides from TPV's, which we have already proven are not much of a deterrent, i can't see what the differences are.

And you can't point out what they are.

That about sums it up

Based on history - this is the case

Labor has no history of success in this area

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #85 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 1:36pm Because they wanted to help Maqqa achieve a world record, number of Threads on page 1 of Politicians Suck? Oh sorry, nearly forgot? I wonder, if FD is charging the Liberal Party, for Maqqa's Party Advertising, which is all that she is doing, LIBERAL PARTY ADVETISING/SPIN!
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Maqqa

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #86 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 1:44pm

perceptions_now wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 1:36pm:

Because they wanted to help Maqqa achieve a world record, number of Threads on page 1 of Politicians Suck?

Oh sorry, nearly forgot?

I wonder, if FD is charging the Liberal Party, for Maqqa's Party Advertising, which is all that she is doing, LIBERAL PARTY ADVETISING/SPIN!

I am advertising the Liberal party

hhmmm

I rarely post about the LIBs so how can I be advertising them?

and I am grateful to FD for the website - despite the fact I do antagonise him/her Cool

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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FriYAY

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #87 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 1:52pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 9:09am:

The boats had already been stopped by a deliberate campaign of terror and endangering lives.

Only sending claimants back at great risk to life and limb has been shown to be effective.

Excellent ideas for new border tightening measures by the sounds of it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor?
Reply #88 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 2:58pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 12:39pm:

Why should I?

It's enough to say the current system does not work.

If you are so sure returning to the pacific solution will solve the problem, I think its fair enough that you explain why the current policy - supported by the libs - is not working.

You see, they are almost identical - except for the TPVs - which we already know have the opposite effect of what they are intended. The key difference with labor's policy is the no advantage measure - which is by design punitive - specifically for deterrence. Howard didn't have that. So basically you are saying that although Howard had a softer approach than Gillard, returning to his policy will somehow work.

Here's what will most likely happen: Abbott will come to power on a platform of "stopping the boats" (again). He will continue Nauru, and reintroduce TPVs. It won't have any effect - in fact arrivals will continue to increase. Abbott's government will then do what Howard did in 2001 - panic. He will bring back terror tactics on the high seas - call it Operation Relex Mark II. People will likely die and many more lives will be needlessly endangered. Eventually through sheer terror, the boats will stop. And once again, the so called "pacific solution" will have had nothing to do with it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Why did illegal boat numbers increase under Labor? Reply #89 - Mar 25^th, 2013 at 3:00pm perceptions_now wrote on Mar 25^th, 2013 at 1:36pm: I wonder, if FD is charging the Liberal Party, for Maqqa's Party Advertising, which is all that she is doing, LIBERAL PARTY ADVETISING/SPIN! Good God - I'd be demanding my money back.
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