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Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes (Read 91068 times)
hadrian_now
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Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm  
It is a foregone conclusion that Abbott will be the next PM.
He has promised to dump both these taxes and I am assuming that, unlike Gillard, he is not a liar.
The problem will be the Senate since even in a landslide it is unlikely that the Lib-Nats will get a majority.
What Abbott has to do imo is immediately announce that if the Senate refuses a bill of repeal there will be a DD as soon as permissible. No stuffing around, no politicking, a DD as soon as possible. Show the people you mean what you say.
I actually can't see the rationale for a mining tax in the first place. Like any other taxpayers, the mining companies should be only subject to the same taxes that apply generally.
As for the carbon tax, that is a matter of principle. The repeal of that is as critical in Abbott's election as it will be in Gillard's unelection (if she is still around, which I doubt).
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Dnarever
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #1 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:35pm  
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
It is a foregone conclusion that Abbott will be the next PM..



The probability is high, we should be ashamed.

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
He has promised to dump both these taxes and I am assuming that, unlike Gillard, he is not a liar..



He is a self confessed liar and is caught out about every second time he speaks.

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
The problem will be the Senate since even in a landslide it is unlikely that the Lib-Nats will get a majority..



Lets pray he doesn't

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
What Abbott has to do imo is immediately announce that if the Senate refuses a bill of repeal there will be a DD as soon as permissible..



He already said that - problem is it would be mid 2015 and he may well be on the nose by then and there is an outside chance that Whyalla may still be standing and the carbon price will still be remarkable not noticeable by anyone.

People may actually wake up that the whole campaign against a carbon price has been one huge fraud especially considering that the Liberals policy is to charge us more and to do less.
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hadrian_now
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #2 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:17pm  
I can't see mid-2015. A bill should be ready for presenting on the first day. It only takes 2 refusals at 3-monthly intervals from memory.
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Disclosure: anything I write may be deemed to be extremist, particularly if it is critical of the ALP or Greens. Look away now if squeamish.
Life may be too short, so have a laugh & enjoy.
 
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Dnarever
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #3 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:32pm  
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:17pm:
I can't see mid-2015. A bill should be ready for presenting on the first day. It only takes 2 refusals at 3-monthly intervals from memory.



They typically wait for the new senate to be in operation about 6 months later.

Then there is the time to debate the bills, send it to discussion on to put it on hold for a while.

Even when they get 3 refusals it is not automatically a DD the GG has to agree that the government is unworkable and it is a major bill which impacts the running of the country.

The GG is entitled to just say go away and be serious, while this is not likely it is what probably should happen.

A DD is not just because you spit the dummy it is meant to resolve situations where the government is unworkable.
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FRED.
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #4 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:51pm  
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:35pm:
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
It is a foregone conclusion that Abbott will be the next PM..



The probability is high, we should be ashamed.

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
He has promised to dump both these taxes and I am assuming that, unlike Gillard, he is not a liar..



He is a self confessed liar and is caught out about every second time he speaks.

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
The problem will be the Senate since even in a landslide it is unlikely that the Lib-Nats will get a majority..



Lets pray he doesn't

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
What Abbott has to do imo is immediately announce that if the Senate refuses a bill of repeal there will be a DD as soon as permissible..



He already said that - problem is it would be mid 2015 and he may well be on the nose by then and there is an outside chance that Whyalla may still be standing and the carbon price will still be remarkable not noticeable by anyone.

People may actually wake up that the whole campaign against a carbon price has been one huge fraud especially considering that the Liberals policy is to charge us more and to do less.



POOR DIDDUMS   Grin Grin Grin
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FRED.bell58@yahoo.com.au FRED.bell58@yahoo.com.au  
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philperth2010
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #5 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 4:33pm  
There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

Cool Cool Cool
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #6 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:49pm  
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:32pm:
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:17pm:
I can't see mid-2015. A bill should be ready for presenting on the first day. It only takes 2 refusals at 3-monthly intervals from memory.



They typically wait for the new senate to be in operation about 6 months later.

Then there is the time to debate the bills, send it to discussion on to put it on hold for a while.

Even when they get 3 refusals it is not automatically a DD the GG has to agree that the government is unworkable and it is a major bill which impacts the running of the country.

The GG is entitled to just say go away and be serious, while this is not likely it is what probably should happen.

A DD is not just because you spit the dummy it is meant to resolve situations where the government is unworkable.


dont be so silly. constitutionally, the GG can call an election at any time or refuse to hold one whhen the PM requests. But the immutable convention is that the GG operates under the PMs advice and ONLY on the PMs advice meaning the PM calls the election. the DD is likewise a constitutional issue that if Abbott decides to call one when the constitutional provisions have been met then we WILL have a DD. dont imagine that the silly labor woman GG is going to save you from the constitution.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #7 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:52pm  
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

Cool Cool Cool


so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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John Smith
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #8 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:25pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

Cool Cool Cool


so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.


yes ... it is the senates job to do what it thinks is best for Australia's future ... Abbott already threw any convention relating to mandates out of the window as soon as he became opposition leader .. if it's good enough for him to run the opposition by opposing everything, it's good enough for everyone else.
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Dnarever
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #9 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:45pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:49pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:32pm:
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:17pm:
I can't see mid-2015. A bill should be ready for presenting on the first day. It only takes 2 refusals at 3-monthly intervals from memory.



They typically wait for the new senate to be in operation about 6 months later.

Then there is the time to debate the bills, send it to discussion on to put it on hold for a while.

Even when they get 3 refusals it is not automatically a DD the GG has to agree that the government is unworkable and it is a major bill which impacts the running of the country.

The GG is entitled to just say go away and be serious, while this is not likely it is what probably should happen.

A DD is not just because you spit the dummy it is meant to resolve situations where the government is unworkable.


dont be so silly. constitutionally, the GG can call an election at any time or refuse to hold one whhen the PM requests. But the immutable convention is that the GG operates under the PMs advice and ONLY on the PMs advice meaning the PM calls the election. the DD is likewise a constitutional issue that if Abbott decides to call one when the constitutional provisions have been met then we WILL have a DD. dont imagine that the silly labor woman GG is going to save you from the constitution.


As I said I doubt that the GG whoever it is would but there is a requirement for a suitable reason for calling a DD and some rubbish non essential legislation not passing may not constitute a valid reason.


I doubt that Abbott would call one anyway, for him it would be a lose lose situation.
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Dnarever
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #10 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:46pm  
FRED. wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:51pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:35pm:
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
It is a foregone conclusion that Abbott will be the next PM..



The probability is high, we should be ashamed.

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
He has promised to dump both these taxes and I am assuming that, unlike Gillard, he is not a liar..



He is a self confessed liar and is caught out about every second time he speaks.

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
The problem will be the Senate since even in a landslide it is unlikely that the Lib-Nats will get a majority..



Lets pray he doesn't

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 1:03pm:
What Abbott has to do imo is immediately announce that if the Senate refuses a bill of repeal there will be a DD as soon as permissible..



He already said that - problem is it would be mid 2015 and he may well be on the nose by then and there is an outside chance that Whyalla may still be standing and the carbon price will still be remarkable not noticeable by anyone.

People may actually wake up that the whole campaign against a carbon price has been one huge fraud especially considering that the Liberals policy is to charge us more and to do less.



POOR DIDDUMS 



Your normal standard of content I see.
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Dnarever
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #11 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:49pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!



so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.


CT being very unpopular as a matter of course

Very unpopular amoung the media and the Liberals, most people havn't noticed any change - even the residents of Whyalla.

Given time for a DD to eventuate and they may work out how badly they were conned, Huge problem for Abbott I would think.
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #12 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 7:04pm  
John Smith wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:25pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

Cool Cool Cool


so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.


yes ... it is the senates job to do what it thinks is best for Australia's future ... Abbott already threw any convention relating to mandates out of the window as soon as he became opposition leader .. if it's good enough for him to run the opposition by opposing everything, it's good enough for everyone else.


actually, it is no such thing you dimwit. But i guess for someone who thinks that Fraser left a $40B debt, believing that rubbish comes second nature to you.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #13 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 7:06pm  
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:45pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:49pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:32pm:
hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 2:17pm:
I can't see mid-2015. A bill should be ready for presenting on the first day. It only takes 2 refusals at 3-monthly intervals from memory.



They typically wait for the new senate to be in operation about 6 months later.

Then there is the time to debate the bills, send it to discussion on to put it on hold for a while.

Even when they get 3 refusals it is not automatically a DD the GG has to agree that the government is unworkable and it is a major bill which impacts the running of the country.

The GG is entitled to just say go away and be serious, while this is not likely it is what probably should happen.

A DD is not just because you spit the dummy it is meant to resolve situations where the government is unworkable.


dont be so silly. constitutionally, the GG can call an election at any time or refuse to hold one whhen the PM requests. But the immutable convention is that the GG operates under the PMs advice and ONLY on the PMs advice meaning the PM calls the election. the DD is likewise a constitutional issue that if Abbott decides to call one when the constitutional provisions have been met then we WILL have a DD. dont imagine that the silly labor woman GG is going to save you from the constitution.


As I said I doubt that the GG whoever it is would but there is a requirement for a suitable reason for calling a DD and some rubbish non essential legislation not passing may not constitute a valid reason.


I doubt that Abbott would call one anyway, for him it would be a lose lose situation.


lose lose?? not likely. given that the CT is very unpopular, the senate refusing to repeal it could backfire on them very badly. voters have a habit of punishing govts that refuse to do as they wish. not only would a DD have the CT repeal passed but it could give abbott more senators.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #14 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 7:08pm  
Dnarever wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 6:49pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:52pm:
philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 4:33pm:
There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!



so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.


CT being very unpopular as a matter of course

Very unpopular amoung the media and the Liberals, most people havn't noticed any change - even the residents of Whyalla.

Given time for a DD to eventuate and they may work out how badly they were conned, Huge problem for Abbott I would think.


the last polling on the subject found opposition to the Ct running at 60/40. thats more thane mere liberals.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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