Australian Politics Forum - Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75137 Gender:	Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes Reply #15 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 9:08pm Abbott will never go to a DD ..... he wants the top job too much and is to scared of losing it.
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John S

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #16 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 9:27pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 5:49pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 2:32pm:

hadrian_now wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

I can't see mid-2015. A bill should be ready for presenting on the first day. It only takes 2 refusals at 3-monthly intervals from memory.

They typically wait for the new senate to be in operation about 6 months later.

Then there is the time to debate the bills, send it to discussion on to put it on hold for a while.

Even when they get 3 refusals it is not automatically a DD the GG has to agree that the government is unworkable and it is a major bill which impacts the running of the country.

The GG is entitled to just say go away and be serious, while this is not likely it is what probably should happen.

A DD is not just because you spit the dummy it is meant to resolve situations where the government is unworkable.

dont be so silly. constitutionally, the GG can call an election at any time or refuse to hold one whhen the PM requests. But the immutable convention is that the GG operates under the PMs advice and ONLY on the PMs advice meaning the PM calls the election. the DD is likewise a constitutional issue that if Abbott decides to call one when the constitutional provisions have been met then we WILL have a DD. dont imagine that the silly labor woman GG is going to save you from the constitution.

So why did Kerr take the advice of the Chief Justice of the High Court and not Whitlam advice when he want a half senate election?

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #17 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:09pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 6:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.

CT being very unpopular as a matter of course

Very unpopular amoung the media and the Liberals, most people havn't noticed any change - even the residents of Whyalla.

Given time for a DD to eventuate and they may work out how badly they were conned, Huge problem for Abbott I would think.

the last polling on the subject found opposition to the Ct running at 60/40. thats more thane mere liberals.

Yes Liberals plus 3 years of solid wall to wall media propoganda day after day.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #18 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:12pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 6:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.

CT being very unpopular as a matter of course

Very unpopular amoung the media and the Liberals, most people havn't noticed any change - even the residents of Whyalla.

Given time for a DD to eventuate and they may work out how badly they were conned, Huge problem for Abbott I would think.

the last polling on the subject found opposition to the Ct running at 60/40. thats more thane mere liberals.

Yes Liberals plus 3 years of solid wall to wall media propoganda day after day.

Or what labrats and labor just dont get. Payback is a biatch in Australia and no toll poppy is going to blatantly lie to me to gain power. Now F off biatch.

I love Australians. Keeps the powerful in check from time to time. Not like the easy beats in the US.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #19 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:19pm

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 6:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.

CT being very unpopular as a matter of course

Very unpopular amoung the media and the Liberals, most people havn't noticed any change - even the residents of Whyalla.

Given time for a DD to eventuate and they may work out how badly they were conned, Huge problem for Abbott I would think.

the last polling on the subject found opposition to the Ct running at 60/40. thats more thane mere liberals.

Yes Liberals plus 3 years of solid wall to wall media propoganda day after day.

Or what labrats and labor just dont get. Payback is a biatch in Australia and no toll poppy is going to blatantly lie to me to gain power. Now F off biatch.

I love Australians. Keeps the powerful in check from time to time. Not like the easy beats in the US.

Many seemed happy enough for Howard to do it to them time after time.

He was only ever elected in the first place with a commitment to never ever introduce a GST, He went to his second election with lies about the waterfront dispute and his broken GST promise, then we had his third campaign based on children being thrown overboard except that it was a lie and then we had interest rates will always be lower in 2004 another blatant pork pie.

John Howard took a divisive policy and a blatent Lie to every election campaign he stood and you guys loved every one of them.

Now you pretend to care about honesty to support a confessed liar. The most honest option is never the conservatives.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #20 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:46pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:19pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 7:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 6:49pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 4:33pm:

There is every possibility leading into 2014 that Europe could melt down altogether with America not far behind.....If upcoming elections follow the trend of electing Governments who promise not to accept the European Union solution then Europe could see several economies crash causing a domino affect.....The mining tax and carbon tax might be needed by Abbott to balance the budget in the short to medium term allowing the ALP and Greens to stall the repeal of these taxes for a time might work in Abbott's favor!!!

so it is okay for you that the senate would refuse to repeal the CT despite abbott having a massive mandate for it and the CT being very unpopular as a matter of course?? Id be interested in your understanding of democracy because in most peoples minds it means the parliament passing legislation in line with their wishes.

CT being very unpopular as a matter of course

Very unpopular amoung the media and the Liberals, most people havn't noticed any change - even the residents of Whyalla.

Given time for a DD to eventuate and they may work out how badly they were conned, Huge problem for Abbott I would think.

the last polling on the subject found opposition to the Ct running at 60/40. thats more thane mere liberals.

Yes Liberals plus 3 years of solid wall to wall media propoganda day after day.

Or what labrats and labor just dont get. Payback is a biatch in Australia and no toll poppy is going to blatantly lie to me to gain power. Now F off biatch.

I love Australians. Keeps the powerful in check from time to time. Not like the easy beats in the US.

Many seemed happy enough for Howard to do it to them time after time.

He was only ever elected in the first place with a commitment to never ever introduce a GST, He went to his second election with lies about the waterfront dispute and his broken GST promise, then we had his third campaign based on children being thrown overboard except that it was a lie and then we had interest rates will always be lower in 2004 another blatant pork pie.

John Howard took a divisive policy and a blatent Lie to every election campaign he stood and you guys loved every one of them.

Now you pretend to care about honesty to support a confessed liar. The most honest option is never the conservatives.

Again, what labrats and labor just dont get. If you are going to change your mind, atleast give us aussies a chance to agree or disagree. Dont just sell us out for power at any cost or ill kick your Azz.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #21 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:01pm

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:19pm:

Many seemed happy enough for Howard to do it to them time after time.

He was only ever elected in the first place with a commitment to never ever introduce a GST, He went to his second election with lies about the waterfront dispute and his broken GST promise, then we had his third campaign based on children being thrown overboard except that it was a lie and then we had interest rates will always be lower in 2004 another blatant pork pie.

John Howard took a divisive policy and a blatent Lie to every election campaign he stood and you guys loved every one of them.

Now you pretend to care about honesty to support a confessed liar. The most honest option is never the conservatives.

Again, what labrats and labor just dont get. If you are going to change your mind, atleast give us aussies a chance to agree or disagree. Dont just sell us out for power at any cost or ill kick your Azz.

That is just an excuse for supporting the Howard lie.

What Gillard said did not help her to get elected - it probably hurt her chances, Howards commitment was key to him being made PM ever. Howard was miserably unpopular languishing at 17% and not wanted by the Liberals most of all, he was the leader they didn't want.

If you are going to change your mind

So now its about changing your mind and not about lies? Overall for every Lie Gillard may have told Howard would have produced a truck full and Abbott is no better.

The Liberals supporters’ feigned rage over 1 supposed lie is contemptible.

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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #22 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:06pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

What Gillard said did not help her to get elected - it probably hurt her chances, Howards commitment was key to him being made PM ever. Howard was miserably unpopular languishing at 17% and not wanted by the Liberals most of all, he was the leader they didn't want.

Languishing at 17% you say

That would be Keating

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #23 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:21pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 10:19pm:

Many seemed happy enough for Howard to do it to them time after time.

He was only ever elected in the first place with a commitment to never ever introduce a GST, He went to his second election with lies about the waterfront dispute and his broken GST promise, then we had his third campaign based on children being thrown overboard except that it was a lie and then we had interest rates will always be lower in 2004 another blatant pork pie.

John Howard took a divisive policy and a blatent Lie to every election campaign he stood and you guys loved every one of them.

Now you pretend to care about honesty to support a confessed liar. The most honest option is never the conservatives.

Again, what labrats and labor just dont get. If you are going to change your mind, atleast give us aussies a chance to agree or disagree. Dont just sell us out for power at any cost or ill kick your Azz.

That is just an excuse for supporting the Howard lie.

What Gillard said did not help her to get elected - it probably hurt her chances, Howards commitment was key to him being made PM ever. Howard was miserably unpopular languishing at 17% and not wanted by the Liberals most of all, he was the leader they didn't want.

If you are going to change your mind

So now its about changing your mind and not about lies? Overall for every Lie Gillard may have told Howard would have produced a truck full and Abbott is no better.

The Liberals supporters’ feigned rage over 1 supposed lie is contemptible.

Hey, thats your problem. You can have the parties who tell you something at election time, only to do the opposite while in that term. I will have the parties who can change their minds if needed and allow me to vote on that change.

Your loss, not mine, labor are dead meat, my party of allowing me to vote on changed minds is going great guns.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes Reply #24 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:28pm John Smith wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 9:08pm: Abbott will never go to a DD ..... he wants the top job too much and is to scared of losing it. Lets see you use polls to explain this view
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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #25 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:35pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

What Gillard said did not help her to get elected - it probably hurt her chances, Howards commitment was key to him being made PM ever. Howard was miserably unpopular languishing at 18% and not wanted by the Liberals most of all, he was the leader they didn't want.

Languishing at 17% you say

That would be Keating

Yes Howards rating was a huge 18% - sorry about the error.

Keatings 17% was not about ratings and it was a one off where Howard was called Mr 18% for a considerable time.

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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #26 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:38pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:35pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

What Gillard said did not help her to get elected - it probably hurt her chances, Howards commitment was key to him being made PM ever. Howard was miserably unpopular languishing at 18% and not wanted by the Liberals most of all, he was the leader they didn't want.

Languishing at 17% you say

That would be Keating

Yes Howards rating was a huge 18% - sorry about the error.

Keatings 17% was not about ratings and it was a one off where Howard was called Mr 18% for a considerable time.

18% did you say

You sure it's not 18% interest rate under Keating?!!

And this 18% - was it during 1996-2007?

Show us your reference

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #27 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:40pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:28pm:

John Smith wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 9:08pm:

Abbott will never go to a DD ..... he wants the top job too much and is to scared of losing it.

Lets see you use polls to explain this view

He shouldn't but with Abbott you never know he has always been a bit of a cowboy.

By the time he is in the position it most likely will be obvious that he can only lose out of the choice.

If he wins a large majority a DD would be a situation where he can only lose seats and bring the demise of his government closer.

i.e. a real stupid move

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #28 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:44pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:38pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:35pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:01pm:

What Gillard said did not help her to get elected - it probably hurt her chances, Howards commitment was key to him being made PM ever. Howard was miserably unpopular languishing at 18% and not wanted by the Liberals most of all, he was the leader they didn't want.

Languishing at 17% you say

That would be Keating

Yes Howards rating was a huge 18% - sorry about the error.

Keatings 17% was not about ratings and it was a one off where Howard was called Mr 18% for a considerable time.

18% did you say

You sure it's not 18% interest rate under Keating?!!

And this 18% - was it during 1996-2007?

Show us your reference

Quote:

Once upon a time, Howard suffered a similar fate. On December 20, 1988, The Bulletin ran its famous (or infamous) cover story: "Mr 18 per cent. Why on earth does this man bother?" Inside the magazine, a Morgan Gallup poll revealed that Howard had an approval rating of 30 per cent. However, he was at 18 per cent - compared with Bob Hawke's 69 per cent - in the "better prime minister" poll. Hence the put-down on The Bulletin's cover.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/28/1035683357296.html

In 1995 when he was made Leader of the Liberals he was being called Mr 18% and had been for years.

was it during 1996-2007?

How could it be in that range when it was refering to when he was made leader in 1995.

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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes
Reply #29 - Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:53pm

Dnarever wrote on Mar 10^th, 2013 at 11:44pm:

Quote:

Once upon a time, Howard suffered a similar fate. On December 20, 1988, The Bulletin ran its famous (or infamous) cover story: "Mr 18 per cent. Why on earth does this man bother?" Inside the magazine, a Morgan Gallup poll revealed that Howard had an approval rating of 30 per cent. However, he was at 18 per cent - compared with Bob Hawke's 69 per cent - in the "better prime minister" poll. Hence the put-down on The Bulletin's cover.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/28/1035683357296.html

In 1995 when he was made Leader of the Liberals he was being called Mr 18% and had been for years.

was it during 1996-2007?

How could it be in that range when it was refering to when he was made leader in 1995.

So now we want to dig up his figures when he was not PM to compare it to Gillard?

How about comparing PM with PM

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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