Australian Politics Forum - Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes

Lobo

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #570 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 12:17pm

So let's assume that the CT is repealed.

Legislation is enacted to have business reduce their prices by their 'claimed' CT cost increase.

Will the local Pie Shoppe reduce its prices by the 5c/item that was the increase blamed on the CT??

I don't think so.

Besides, wouldn't legislating to force businesses to set their prices be the evilest of all Govt interference.......

PRICE CONTROL??

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"What's in store for me in the direction I don't take?"-Jack Kerouac.

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john_g

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #571 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 1:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 27^th, 2013 at 6:13pm:

I look at it in two ways:

1. IF the carbon tax cannot be repealed, then it is a clear act of contempt towards the people and therefore democracy, by Labor, and they will never ever get my vote again.

2. IF the carbon tax cannot be repealed, then Tony Abbott had better admit it and explain why BEFORE the election, otherwise the Coalition will never ever get my vote again.

it can be repealed. the only thing that stands in the way is the probably balance of power by the greens which would be ineffective if labor accepted the mandate to remove it.

I can't see them doing that.

So I suppose the only hope is for the Coalition to have a Senate majority, not totally out of the question the way things are now.

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Doctor Jolly

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #572 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 2:06pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:51am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:43am:

Its such a pity that the carbon tax is being talked about being undone.

Its such a good policy to price in polution to the economic cycle at polution creation time, rather than wait for the tax payer to clean up the polution (at much higher cost) later.

The carbon tax is good because it targets the cause of the problem (coal) and its revenue helps fund the solution (renewables).

Its about the most effective tax we have.

Opposing it for purely political gain is a sad state of affairs.

Australia's emission is 1.3% of total world emission

Cutting it by 5% makes no difference to temperature and/or cost of cleaning up later

the nimby argument.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #573 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 2:30pm

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:51am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:43am:

Its such a pity that the carbon tax is being talked about being undone.

Its such a good policy to price in polution to the economic cycle at polution creation time, rather than wait for the tax payer to clean up the polution (at much higher cost) later.

The carbon tax is good because it targets the cause of the problem (coal) and its revenue helps fund the solution (renewables).

Its about the most effective tax we have.

Opposing it for purely political gain is a sad state of affairs.

Australia's emission is 1.3% of total world emission

Cutting it by 5% makes no difference to temperature and/or cost of cleaning up later

the nimby argument.

Is what this is all about?

Reducing global temperature?

There's nothing nimby about the point

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Peter Freedman

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Wellington
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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #574 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 3:16pm

Lobo wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 12:17pm:

So let's assume that the CT is repealed.

Legislation is enacted to have business reduce their prices by their 'claimed' CT cost increase.

Will the local Pie Shoppe reduce its prices by the 5c/item that was the increase blamed on the CT??

I don't think so.

Besides, wouldn't legislating to force businesses to set their prices be the evilest of all Govt interference.......

PRICE CONTROL??

Exactly.

Yet if Abbott repeals the tax, then doesn't try to force prices down, then he will be under huge pressure to maintain compensation, particularly for pensioners.

So he could end up with all the expenditure involved with the tax, but none of the income.

Ouch.........l..l Embarrassed

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #575 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 5:20pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 2:30pm:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:51am:

Doctor Jolly wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:43am:

Its such a pity that the carbon tax is being talked about being undone.

Its such a good policy to price in polution to the economic cycle at polution creation time, rather than wait for the tax payer to clean up the polution (at much higher cost) later.

The carbon tax is good because it targets the cause of the problem (coal) and its revenue helps fund the solution (renewables).

Its about the most effective tax we have.

Opposing it for purely political gain is a sad state of affairs.

Australia's emission is 1.3% of total world emission

Cutting it by 5% makes no difference to temperature and/or cost of cleaning up later

the nimby argument.

Is what this is all about?

Reducing global temperature?

There's nothing nimby about the point

I am fairly sure that the answer isn't to keep accellerating the rate of making it worse.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #576 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 5:22pm

Maqqa wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 10:25am:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 4:16am:

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 27^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

The point is that the Liberals may be able to repeal the legislation, but prices won't come down.

Then Abbott will have to explain why and what he is going to do about it.

That should be fun.......

your opinion only. it would be childs place to legislate that prices are reduced by the amount the CT is removed. and if it is not removed ten who is to blame? not abbott. Gillard. and you know that fair or not, Gillard will be blamed for the carbon tax for many years to come.

it would be childs place to legislate that prices are reduced by the amount the CT is removed.

Not a chance in a million that the Libs would force the cost to be reduced by double what it went up in this manner. Simply won't happen.

Quite difinitivly prices will not go down - they never do.

Price = Costs + Profit + CT

If you remove CT - then the only way prices goes up is if Costs increase and/or profiteering increases

Currently Gillard has the ACCC monitoring profiteering so the same mechanism can be used.

Facts are prices goes up anyway - but it should not go up because a government put in a tax it promised not to

Facts are prices goes up anyway And convieniently they will as soon as the fixed price is removed, just a coincidence though nothing to worry about.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Carlsbad, CA
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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #577 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 5:30pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Lobo wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 12:17pm:

So let's assume that the CT is repealed.

Legislation is enacted to have business reduce their prices by their 'claimed' CT cost increase.

Will the local Pie Shoppe reduce its prices by the 5c/item that was the increase blamed on the CT??

I don't think so.

Besides, wouldn't legislating to force businesses to set their prices be the evilest of all Govt interference.......

PRICE CONTROL??

Exactly.

Yet if Abbott repeals the tax, then doesn't try to force prices down, then he will be under huge pressure to maintain compensation, particularly for pensioners.

So he could end up with all the expenditure involved with the tax, but none of the income.

Ouch.........l..l Embarrassed

You do know -

1. The compensation is temporary only.
2. Many families across Australia got nothing at all anyway (something conveniently forgotten by many here)

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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John Smith

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Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #578 - Mar 28^th, 2013 at 6:20pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 5:30pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 3:16pm:

Lobo wrote on Mar 28^th, 2013 at 12:17pm:

So let's assume that the CT is repealed.

Legislation is enacted to have business reduce their prices by their 'claimed' CT cost increase.

Will the local Pie Shoppe reduce its prices by the 5c/item that was the increase blamed on the CT??

I don't think so.

Besides, wouldn't legislating to force businesses to set their prices be the evilest of all Govt interference.......

PRICE CONTROL??

Exactly.

Yet if Abbott repeals the tax, then doesn't try to force prices down, then he will be under huge pressure to maintain compensation, particularly for pensioners.

So he could end up with all the expenditure involved with the tax, but none of the income.

Ouch.........l..l Embarrassed

You do know -

1. The compensation is temporary only.
2. Many families across Australia got nothing at all anyway (something conveniently forgotten by many here)

actually Andrei, most families did get something .. over 90 % is most families in Australia, not sure what you call 'most' in the USA.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: Abbott can't stop the carbon tax
Reply #579 - Apr 4^th, 2013 at 7:23pm

longweekend58 wrote on Mar 27^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

john_g wrote on Mar 27^th, 2013 at 6:13pm:

I look at it in two ways:

1. IF the carbon tax cannot be repealed, then it is a clear act of contempt towards the people and therefore democracy, by Labor, and they will never ever get my vote again.

2. IF the carbon tax cannot be repealed, then Tony Abbott had better admit it and explain why BEFORE the election, otherwise the Coalition will never ever get my vote again.

it can be repealed. the only thing that stands in the way is the probably balance of power by the greens which would be ineffective if labor accepted the mandate to remove it.

Check out some examples of Longy's stunning hypocrisy on the concept of mandates:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1365047005

Prior to jumping on the carbon tax mandate bandwagon, Longy was arguing against the concept of majority rule in democracy, insisting that in order to be fair to political parties we must grant them full power without requiring majority support. He has also argued that political parties should impose unpopular changes on the voting public against the wishes of the majority.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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