Australian Politics Forum - Abbott & the mining/carbon taxes

philperth2010

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #75 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 6:14pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2013 at 3:12pm:

You morons on the left loves to bring out the phrase "but Abbott says the carbon tax is the best way"

But no one on the left has enough courage to post the exact comments and discuss it. The same way with the Whyalla issue.

This is why LIB supporters are a better bred of people than Leftards

I have no issue in posting threads like this examining the leader of the Opposition.

When was the last time anyone on the left did this?

That said - here are sippets from what he said and the context to which he said it.

He was putting out the idea and promoting his book and the same Turnbull was leader.

If you want to assume that to be Party Policy then FU.

He did this interview on 15 July 2009 and took over the leadership Dec 2009

Happy to discuss any point without abuse

To late.....you have already cast the first stone and shown you cannot uphold the very standards you request of others.....Very poor form indeed!!!

Angry

The Argument from Intimidation is a confession of intellectual impotence.
Ayn Rand (1905 - 1982), The Virtue of Selfishness, 1964

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« Last Edit: Feb 27^th, 2013 at 6:55pm by philperth2010 »

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #76 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 6:33pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 26^th, 2013 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Fair enough. Please explain why the statement is not as stupid as it appears.

This interview was done July 2009
(1) He was promoting his book
(2) This is before he took over the leadership from Turnbull
(3) This is before he rolled Turnbull on the ETS

At 7.04 - he was asked about the ETS

His answers are as follows:

(1) The Rudd government is set on this.
(2) You can't save the country from the consequences of its vote
(3) Rudd claims he has a mandate for an ETS when it won the election - because he has the numbers
(4) If Rudd think he has this mandate then go ahead and do it.
(5) But IF he was going to do it.....
(6) 7.32 - If we were in government we would not be doing what the Rudd government is doing
(7) We don't like it. We don't think it's economically helpful for the country

If you want to omit the above context - up to you.

In layman's term
(i) LIBs didn't like it
(ii) LIBs won't support it
(iii) LIBs can't stop you because you have the numbers
(iv) If Labor was going to do it - here's some friendly advice - make the tax simple.

(iv) If Labor was going to do it - here's some friendly advice - make the tax simple.

That is not what he said or any reasonable interpretation of it.

He said that if you want to put a price on carbon then why not a tax. What he clearly meant was that if you are going to do it then the best method is with a tax.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #77 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 6:43pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 26^th, 2013 at 9:31pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 26^th, 2013 at 7:49pm:

Fair enough. Please explain why the statement is not as stupid as it appears.

This interview was done July 2009
(1) He was promoting his book

Big deal

(2) This is before he took over the leadership from Turnbull

???? who cares ????

(3) This is before he rolled Turnbull on the ETS

At 7.04 - he was asked about the ETS

His answers are as follows:

(1) The Rudd government is set on this.

So was the Howard Government who took the same virtual policy to the 2007 election and so was the Turnbull led opposition, it was the same policy that Tony Himself supported in the previous election campaign.

(2) You can't save the country from the consequences of its vote

Especially when a Liberal vote at the same election was going to result in virtually the same policy.

(3) Rudd claims he has a mandate for an ETS when it won the election - because he has the numbers

He was right, so would have Howard.

(4) If Rudd think he has this mandate then go ahead and do it.

He tried

(5) But IF he was going to do it.....
(6) 7.32 - If we were in government we would not be doing what the Rudd government is doing

If they were in power Howard was the Leader and he was going to do it if re elected.

(7) We don't like it. We don't think it's economically helpful for the country

It is the same as the policy in the same term that they took to the electorate in 2007?

If you want to omit the above context - up to you.

.

Retrospective recontext you mean.

When Abbott said why not a carbon tax he was in a frenzy to oppose an ETS, his endorsement for a tax was only a political move opposing the ETS, nothing more - probably a throw away line.

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freediver

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #78 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 7:14pm

Quote:

so in your humble opinion - you are only everything should be taken out of context and only focus on that part of a sentence within a 10 minutes interview that fits your political ideology

It looks like about 5 sentences to me Maqqa. They are stupid out of context. They are stupid in context. The context cannot rescue them from Abbott's stupidity. It is you who is focussing on half the first sentence.

Quote:

It is you who can't get over the four words and look at the whole interview

WTF? I am not sure how much clearer I can make this Maqqa. He is saying the sensible thing to do is to tax people then refund the tax at the end of the year. In what context is that not stupid? You seem afraid to comment on the elephant in the room, instead offering the same old empty headed criticisms you started with. You are barely even in the conversation you are so afraid of it.

Here it is again for you, seeing as you apparently haven't read your own quote:

Quote:

"If you want to put a price on carbon why not just do it with a simple tax. Why not ask motorists to pay more?

Why not ask electricity consumers to pay more?

And then at the end of the year, you can take your invoices to the tax office and get a rebate on the carbon tax you paid.

It would be burdensome, all taxes are burdensome, but it would certainly change the price on carbon, raise the price of carbon without increasing in any way the overall tax burden."

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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #79 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 8:02pm

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Quote:

so in your humble opinion - you are only everything should be taken out of context and only focus on that part of a sentence within a 10 minutes interview that fits your political ideology

It looks like about 5 sentences to me Maqqa. They are stupid out of context. They are stupid in context. The context cannot rescue them from Abbott's stupidity. It is you who is focussing on half the first sentence.

FFS freedive

5 sentence?

Tells me you haven't even watch the reference

Why do you guys ask for a reference when you don't bother to see/view it

If you are not going to watch the whole thing - then don't comment

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #80 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 8:21pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Quote:

so in your humble opinion - you are only everything should be taken out of context and only focus on that part of a sentence within a 10 minutes interview that fits your political ideology

It looks like about 5 sentences to me Maqqa. They are stupid out of context. They are stupid in context. The context cannot rescue them from Abbott's stupidity. It is you who is focussing on half the first sentence.

FFS freedive

5 sentence?

Tells me you haven't even watch the reference

Why do you guys ask for a reference when you don't bother to see/view it

If you are not going to watch the whole thing - then don't comment

Are you really trying to say that Abbott did not recomend that if you are going to put a price on carbon then a tax is the best option?

He clearly did?

So he said it isn't what he would do - have a look at his plan - its very expensive rubbish and we all get to pay for it. I would still go for the fixed price as the best option - Abbott was right.

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freediver

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #81 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 9:56pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Quote:

so in your humble opinion - you are only everything should be taken out of context and only focus on that part of a sentence within a 10 minutes interview that fits your political ideology

It looks like about 5 sentences to me Maqqa. They are stupid out of context. They are stupid in context. The context cannot rescue them from Abbott's stupidity. It is you who is focussing on half the first sentence.

FFS freedive

5 sentence?

Tells me you haven't even watch the reference

Why do you guys ask for a reference when you don't bother to see/view it

If you are not going to watch the whole thing - then don't comment

Still Maqqa keeps replying, but without any indication he has even read what I posted. Just trying to dance around the elephant in the room perhaps.

Here it is again for you Maqqa - pretty stupid of Abbott to say this don't you think? And thanks again for highlighting Abbott's stupidity for us.

Quote:

"If you want to put a price on carbon why not just do it with a simple tax. Why not ask motorists to pay more?

Why not ask electricity consumers to pay more?

And then at the end of the year, you can take your invoices to the tax office and get a rebate on the carbon tax you paid.

It would be burdensome, all taxes are burdensome, but it would certainly change the price on carbon, raise the price of carbon without increasing in any way the overall tax burden."

Or perhaps Maqqa actually agrees with Abbott that it would be sensible for the government to charge a tax and then refund it all at the end of the year. Maybe he is a tax accountant....

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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philperth2010

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #82 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:13pm

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 9:56pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Quote:

so in your humble opinion - you are only everything should be taken out of context and only focus on that part of a sentence within a 10 minutes interview that fits your political ideology

It looks like about 5 sentences to me Maqqa. They are stupid out of context. They are stupid in context. The context cannot rescue them from Abbott's stupidity. It is you who is focussing on half the first sentence.

FFS freedive

5 sentence?

Tells me you haven't even watch the reference

Why do you guys ask for a reference when you don't bother to see/view it

If you are not going to watch the whole thing - then don't comment

Still Maqqa keeps replying, but without any indication he has even read what I posted. Just trying to dance around the elephant in the room perhaps.

Here it is again for you Maqqa - pretty stupid of Abbott to say this don't you think? And thanks again for highlighting Abbott's stupidity for us.

Quote:

"If you want to put a price on carbon why not just do it with a simple tax. Why not ask motorists to pay more?

Why not ask electricity consumers to pay more?

And then at the end of the year, you can take your invoices to the tax office and get a rebate on the carbon tax you paid.

It would be burdensome, all taxes are burdensome, but it would certainly change the price on carbon, raise the price of carbon without increasing in any way the overall tax burden."

Or perhaps Maqqa actually agrees with Abbott that it would be sensible for the government to charge a tax and then refund it all at the end of the year. Maybe he is a tax accountant....

Abbott has painted himself into a corner.....How the hell will Abbott ever find the revenue to fund anything now that he has promised no new taxes and to abolish revenue raising policies.....Abbott has not thought past the next election date!!!

Roll Eyes

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #83 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:21pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:13pm:

Abbott has painted himself into a corner.....How the hell will Abbott ever find the revenue to fund anything now that he has promised no new taxes and to abolish revenue raising policies.....Abbott has not thought past the next election date!!!

Roll Eyes

So you agree it's not about the environment phil?

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49437 At my desk.	Re: Abbott on carbon tax Reply #84 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:49pm Here's a thought Maqqa - maybe the carbon tax is about both carbon and tax....
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philperth2010

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #85 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:50pm

Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:21pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:13pm:

Abbott has painted himself into a corner.....How the hell will Abbott ever find the revenue to fund anything now that he has promised no new taxes and to abolish revenue raising policies.....Abbott has not thought past the next election date!!!

Roll Eyes

So you agree it's not about the environment phil?

The ETS will raise revenue and fund the ALP clean energy policy Macca.....The mining tax will also raise revenue now that commodity prices have recovered from the lows of last year.....So it is not only about the environment it is also about funding very expensive policies to reduce carbon emissions.....The money must come from somewhere???

The Coalitions Direct Action policy is funded from consolidated revenue that is already stretched and the policy simply will not work!!!

There is no choice between the two policies when it comes to achieving our emissions targets!!!

Cool

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Abbott on carbon tax Reply #86 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:51pm freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:49pm: Here's a thought Maqqa - maybe the carbon tax is about both carbon and tax.... Geez I've only been saying this since 2007
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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 75183 Gender:	Re: Abbott on carbon tax Reply #87 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:53pm Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:51pm: freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:49pm: Here's a thought Maqqa - maybe the carbon tax is about both carbon and tax.... Geez I've only been saying this since 2007 no you haven't ... you've been claiming it's about the tax ......
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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #88 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:53pm

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:50pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:21pm:

philperth2010 wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:13pm:

Abbott has painted himself into a corner.....How the hell will Abbott ever find the revenue to fund anything now that he has promised no new taxes and to abolish revenue raising policies.....Abbott has not thought past the next election date!!!

Roll Eyes

So you agree it's not about the environment phil?

The ETS will raise revenue and fund the ALP clean energy policy Macca.....The mining tax will also raise revenue now that commodity prices have recovered from the lows of last year.....So it is not only about the environment it is also about funding very expensive policies to reduce carbon emissions.....The money must come from somewhere???

The Coalitions Direct Action policy is funded from consolidated revenue that is already stretched and the policy simply will not work!!!

There is no choice between the two policies when it comes to achieving our emissions targets!!!

Cool

and what observable changes will it make in the environment if China and India is dumping more into the environment that we are cutting?

the carbon we hope to cut by 2020 is what China dumps into the atmosphere every 12 days

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Maqqa

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Re: Abbott on carbon tax
Reply #89 - Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:54pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Maqqa wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 27^th, 2013 at 10:49pm:

Here's a thought Maqqa - maybe the carbon tax is about both carbon and tax....

Geez

I've only been saying this since 2007