Australian Politics Forum - What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002

Maqqa

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What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Mar 29^th, 2013 at 9:21am

The Iraq war started on 20 March 2003

Some 5 months earlier on 15 October 2002 - Rudd seems very certain about the whole ordeal

It takes a few months to plan and mobilise a war - so the 5 months is well within that planning timeframe

Quote:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/miranda-devine/a-weapon-of-mass-distraction/2008/06/0...

In 2002 Rudd had been a great believer in Iraq's WMDs, along with Australia's very own chief UN weapons inspector, Richard "I held some in my own hands" Butler.

As the Opposition Leader, Brendan Nelson, pointed out this week, Rudd told the State Zionist Council annual assembly on October 15, 2002: "Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction … That is a matter of empirical fact."

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philperth2010

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #1 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 9:41am

Miranda Devine has NFI and deliberately ignores the truth......

Kevin Rudd believed John Howard, Tony Blair and G W Bush when they claimed Saddam Hussein had WMD's as did many Australian's.....However we now know these leaders had no evidence and deliberately deceived there people to invade Iraq.....The ALP censured John Howard over his bullshit Macca so I fail to see what point Miranda Devine is trying to make.....Kevin Rudd was not leader of the ALP and based his opinions of the bullshit fed to him by Howard..... Miranda Devine fails to hold John Howard to account for his failure to accept he was completely wrong about Iraq and instead attacks Rudd for supporting the war based on bullshit.....People base there opinions of what they believe to be the truth and it is the lies and deceit of Howard that is the issue not the awakening of Kevin Rudd to the fact he and all Australian's had been lied to by the Liberal Party to go to war.....Miranda Devine has only held one person to account over the Iraq war and that was Kevin Rudd for bringing the troops home.....Miranda Devine has NFI!!!

Roll Eyes

Quote:

Howard censured over push for war with Iraq

October 8, 2003

Prime Minister John Howard was yesterday censured by the Senate for misleading the public in his justification for sending Australia to war with Iraq.

It was only the fourth time in more than three decades a sitting prime minister has been censured and the second in Mr Howard's seven-and-a-half years in office.

The motion attacked Mr Howard for failing to adequately inform Australians that intelligence agency warnings about a war with Iraq would increase the likelihood of a terrorist attack.

It also noted that no evidence had yet been produced by Mr Howard to justify his claims that in March this year, Iraq possessed stockpiles of completed biological chemical weapons that justified going to war.

The Opposition, Greens and Australian Democrats voted together to defeat the Government by 33 votes to 30.

Greens senator Bob Brown said Mr Howard was involved in an unprecedented deceit of the nation and deserved censure.

He said Mr Howard had argued that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and support of international terrorism threatened Australia. "It has become abundantly clear that the Prime Minister was not just a bit wrong. He was totally wrong," he told parliament.

Defence Minister Robert Hill said the Australian and other governments believed Saddam Hussein's weapons programs posed a very real danger.

Opposition Senate leader John Faulkner said Mr Howard had been loose with the truth on issues of national security.

Mr Howard was censured by the Senate in March 2002 over his failure to stop Liberal Senator Bill Heffernan's attack on High Court Justice Michael Kirby.

- AAP

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/10/08/1065292604414.html

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« Last Edit: Mar 29^th, 2013 at 9:48am by philperth2010 »

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Brendon Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 396	Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002 Reply #2 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:06am No. Rudd needs to be held accountable for what he said back then. Of course he could just unburden himself by saying he was lied to. But he also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.
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Brendon Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 396	Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002 Reply #3 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:07am Howard knew it was lies. Howard refused to hear anything negative about it from his own intelligence agencies. But Rudd also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.
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Mnemonic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1530 Melbourne Gender:	Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002 Reply #4 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:14am Rudd allowed himself to be conned by the American neocons. Let this be a warning to us all, to be on the look-out, for American neocon ideas.
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philperth2010

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #5 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:23am

Brendon wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

No. Rudd needs to be held accountable for what he said back then. Of course he could just unburden himself by saying he was lied to. But he also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.

Why....Kevin Rudd was a back bencher at the time he accepted the Prime Minister John Howard on his word.....Why should Kevin Rudd be the one held to account because he changed his opinion based on the revelation Iraq did not posses WMD's and the evidence used to justify the war was based on bullshit.....Kevin Rudd has every right to base his opinions on facts IMO???

Huh

It is better to suffer wrong than to do it, and happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust.
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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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philperth2010

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #6 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:32am

Mnemonic wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:14am:

Rudd allowed himself to be conned by the American neocons. Let this be a warning to us all, to be on the look-out, for American neocon ideas.

It was John Howard who sent the troops to Iraq NOT Kevin Rudd and the ALP.....Yet the Conservatives cannot bring themselves to condemning there own support for the lies they where fed.....Go figure???

Roll Eyes

Simon Crean was leader of the ALP when Howard sent our troops to Iraq.....

Quote:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/04/1044318605090.html

Labor has always supported the role of the United Nations and the rule of international law.

We helped create the UN out of the rubble of the Second World War. That attempt to settle international disputes through peaceful means was the great tribute our nation paid to the men and women who died in World War Two.

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58782 Here Gender:	Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002 Reply #7 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:41am Yes Macca Rudd was wrong what is your point???? Rudds view at that time was not the Labor view about Iraq.
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Brendon

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #8 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:19am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:23am:

Brendon wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

No. Rudd needs to be held accountable for what he said back then. Of course he could just unburden himself by saying he was lied to. But he also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.

Why....Kevin Rudd was a back bencher at the time he accepted the Prime Minister John Howard on his word.....Why should Kevin Rudd be the one held to account because he changed his opinion based on the revelation Iraq did not posses WMD's and the evidence used to justify the war was based on bullshit.....Kevin Rudd has every right to base his opinions on facts IMO???

Huh

It is better to suffer wrong than to do it, and happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust.
Samuel Johnson (1709 - 1784)

Because there was contradictory evidence about WMDs. Scott Ritter, a former weapons inspector was calling it bs. UN inspectors had found nothing.

Rudd was quoted as saying Iraq WMDs was a "fact". He had no reason to say that.

You accept that, and then you can move onto Howard being an outright liar and a spreader of lies.

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Maqqa

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #9 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:31am

Dnarever wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Yes Macca Rudd was wrong what is your point????

Rudds view at that time was not the Labor view about Iraq.

He was then the Shadow Minister for FOREIGN AFFAIRS expressing a view on FOREIGN AFFAIRS and you think this was not the view of the ALP?

And remember - Rudd expressed this opinion after reviewing evidence

He said the EMPIRICAL FACT was undeniable

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John Smith

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #10 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:39am

Brendon wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

No. Rudd needs to be held accountable for what he said back then. Of course he could just unburden himself by saying he was lied to. But he also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.

god forbid you actually believe what your prime minister is telling you. I think any citizen is entitled to assume their PM is telling the truth since most of the evidence is classified top secret, you have no way of proving it right or wrong.

Do you even stop to think before commenting?

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I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Maqqa

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #11 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:40am

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:39am:

Brendon wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

No. Rudd needs to be held accountable for what he said back then. Of course he could just unburden himself by saying he was lied to. But he also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.

god forbid you actually believe what your prime minister is telling you. I think any citizen is entitled to assume their PM is telling the truth since most of the evidence is classified top secret, you have no way of proving it right or wrong.

Do you even stop to think before commenting?

Abit like

"There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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John Smith

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #12 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:41am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Yes Macca Rudd was wrong what is your point????

Rudds view at that time was not the Labor view about Iraq.

He was then the Shadow Minister for FOREIGN AFFAIRS expressing a view on FOREIGN AFFAIRS and you think this was not the view of the ALP?

And remember - Rudd expressed this opinion after reviewing evidence

He said the EMPIRICAL FACT was undeniable

so, if we extend that logic further, Abbotts views regarding the carbon tax being the best way to reduce emmissions are the liberal parties views? He is the leader of the libs, surely that outranks a shadow minister?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #13 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:42am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:40am:

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:39am:

Brendon wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:06am:

No. Rudd needs to be held accountable for what he said back then. Of course he could just unburden himself by saying he was lied to. But he also needs to assure the public he will not be so gullible in future.

god forbid you actually believe what your prime minister is telling you. I think any citizen is entitled to assume their PM is telling the truth since most of the evidence is classified top secret, you have no way of proving it right or wrong.

Do you even stop to think before commenting?

Abit like

"There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"

yeah ... she had top secret documents showing their was no carbon tax buried in Iraq ... moron

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: What Rudd said about Iraq in Oct 2002
Reply #14 - Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:50am

John Smith wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:41am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 11:31am:

Dnarever wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Yes Macca Rudd was wrong what is your point????

Rudds view at that time was not the Labor view about Iraq.

He was then the Shadow Minister for FOREIGN AFFAIRS expressing a view on FOREIGN AFFAIRS and you think this was not the view of the ALP?

And remember - Rudd expressed this opinion after reviewing evidence

He said the EMPIRICAL FACT was undeniable

so, if we extend that logic further, Abbotts views regarding the carbon tax being the best way to reduce emmissions are the liberal parties views? He is the leader of the libs, surely that outranks a shadow minister?

he also said this was the least of the two evils compared to the CPRS

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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