Australian Politics Forum - AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.

adelcrow

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #75 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:36am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:33am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

Like I've been consistently saying, our public debt levels have been grossly exaggerated.

By how much?

bump for MOTR

you may back down now MOTR

Maqqa wants a recession...dont worry..he'll get his wish next year Cheesy

Oh yes..and there is a difference between net and gross debt, record taxation and record personal and business debt and record housing unaffordability..all of which Howard gave us Grin

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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #76 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:38am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:33am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

Like I've been consistently saying, our public debt levels have been grossly exaggerated.

By how much?

bump for MOTR

you may back down now MOTR

O.K. Maqqa I apologise for assuming you had the comprehension skills required to engage in an intellectual conversation.

Now, explain to us very clearly why you think our debt levels are a major problem.

You can start by telling us if you think going into debt is always wrong per se.

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Maqqa

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14% - that low?!

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #77 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:42am

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:38am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:33am:

Maqqa wrote on Mar 30^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 29^th, 2013 at 8:02pm:

Like I've been consistently saying, our public debt levels have been grossly exaggerated.

By how much?

bump for MOTR

you may back down now MOTR

O.K. Maqqa I apologise for assuming you had the comprehension skills required to engage in an intellectual conversation.

Now, explain to us very clearly why you think our debt levels are a major problem.

You can start by telling us if you think going into debt is always wrong per se.

You say the debt level is exaggerated!

So show me where this is the case or retract your statement as false - then we will discuss the other questions

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #78 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:48am Forget it, Maqqa, you are behaving like a child.
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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #79 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:56am

I never said Howard got us out of debt, ever.
I am not a rusted on voter and have no side, hence there is no reason to exaggerate anything for me.

But, within that 5 year period the country asset pool will not have adjusted by any base amount to significantly impact the gearing position ratio trend between gross and net.
As is basically proven by my two graphs which trend exactly the same.

Labor have increased the debt position both net and gross. Unnecessarily so in my opinion.
That is my point.

You can increase debt at the gross level and reduce net debt by increasing the asset position off which you borrow, nothing wrong with that.
Labor haven't done that, they just borrowed off a reasonably static asset reduction and therefore increased net and gross debt.
Poor management.

Please stop saying about me coming first in economics. It makes you look like you don't understand the university honours system.
Getting a first and coming first are not the same.
One of the Indian girls probably came first with 99% given those guys probably get beaten if they score any less.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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adelcrow Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20133 everywhere Gender:	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #80 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:57am MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:48am: Forget it, Maqqa, you are behaving like a child. Maqqa only has one strategy..repeat what his masters say despite how far from reality it is. All of the facts and historic comparisons have always eluded him.
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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #81 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:59am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:56am:

I never said Howard got us out of debt, ever.
I am not a rusted on voter and have no side, hence there is no reason to exaggerate anything for me.

But, within that 5 year period the country asset pool will not have adjusted by any base amount to significantly impact the gearing position ratio trend between gross and net.
As is basically proven by my two graphs which trend exactly the same.

Labor have increased the debt position both net and gross. Unnecessarily so in my opinion.
That is my point.

You can increase debt at the gross level and reduce net debt by increasing the asset position off which you borrow, nothing wrong with that.
Labor haven't done that, they just borrowed off a reasonably static asset reduction and therefore increased net and gross debt.
Poor management.

Please stop saying about me coming first in economics. It makes you look like you don't understand the university honours system.
Getting a first and coming first are not the same.
One of the Indian girls probably came first with 99% given those guys probably get beaten if they score any less.

Apologies, Andrei, I thought you were talking about fifth grade. But thanks for the Gish Gallop, Andrei, I needed a good laugh.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt. Reply #82 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:59am MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:48am: Forget it, Maqqa, you are behaving like a child. So you are wrong and you try to weasel your way out You may back down now MOTR
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adelcrow

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #83 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:01am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:56am:

I never said Howard got us out of debt, ever.
I am not a rusted on voter and have no side, hence there is no reason to exaggerate anything for me.

But, within that 5 year period the country asset pool will not have adjusted by any base amount to significantly impact the gearing position ratio trend between gross and net.
As is basically proven by my two graphs which trend exactly the same.

Labor have increased the debt position both net and gross. Unnecessarily so in my opinion.
That is my point.

You can increase debt at the gross level and reduce net debt by increasing the asset position off which you borrow, nothing wrong with that.
Labor haven't done that, they just borrowed off a reasonably static asset reduction and therefore increased net and gross debt.
Poor management.

Please stop saying about me coming first in economics. It makes you look like you don't understand the university honours system.
Getting a first and coming first are not the same.
One of the Indian girls probably came first with 99% given those guys probably get beaten if they score any less.

And without all of the tax cuts we've had since Howard was chucked out we would still be in surplus.
But those cuts have stimulated the economy during a world wide recession and meant a dramatic cut to household and business debt. All we need now is an end to all welfare unless its to the most needy and we would be back in the black overnight. A surplus is simple its how you do it and if it creates a debt bubble somewhere else in the economy eg: record household and business debt.

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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #84 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:12am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:59am:

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:48am:

Forget it, Maqqa, you are behaving like a child.

So you are wrong and you try to weasel your way out

You may back down now MOTR

My position hasn't changed. We don't have a debt problem, we don't have excessive debt. There is no need for me to back down from that position because you lack poor comprehension skills. There is no need to back down from a position that is held by the three most prestigious international credit rating agencies, the Reserve Bank, The Treasury, the Depatment of Finance and just about every other reputable economist I have read.

Now if you want to go beyond a ridiculous game of semantics, you can explain to me why you have a differing view.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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philperth2010

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #85 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:14am

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:56am:

I never said Howard got us out of debt, ever.
I am not a rusted on voter and have no side, hence there is no reason to exaggerate anything for me.

But, within that 5 year period the country asset pool will not have adjusted by any base amount to significantly impact the gearing position ratio trend between gross and net.
As is basically proven by my two graphs which trend exactly the same.

Labor have increased the debt position both net and gross. Unnecessarily so in my opinion.
That is my point.

You can increase debt at the gross level and reduce net debt by increasing the asset position off which you borrow, nothing wrong with that.
Labor haven't done that, they just borrowed off a reasonably static asset reduction and therefore increased net and gross debt.
Poor management.

Please stop saying about me coming first in economics. It makes you look like you don't understand the university honours system.
Getting a first and coming first are not the same.
One of the Indian girls probably came first with 99% given those guys probably get beaten if they score any less.

What you have failed to take into account Andre is the lost revenue from lower commodity prices and the higher Australian dollar hurting our exports.....The massive tax cuts used by Howard and Rudd to bribe the electorate plunged the budget into structural deficit reducing revenue intake due to lower prices and lower tax receipts.....The Coalition proposed larger tax cuts instead of a one off stimulus to combat the GFC which would have plunged the budget further into structural deficit.....Revenue has plunged due to the GFC and tax measures introduced by the ALP to address this problem will be dumped by an Abbott Government.....During the Howard years commodity prices and tax receipts increased above expectations providing a surplus with little or no fiscal restraint by Howard and Costello.....When the GFC hit the budget could not sustain the spending Howard and Costello had locked into the forward estimates.....Providing massive incentives and tax payer funding to high income earners during the Howard years has become unsustainable and wasteful.....Unless this basic imbalance is addressed taxpayers will continue to fund the lifestyles of the rich and famous......Is that really what a Government should claim is an achievement???

Huh

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If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Maqqa

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #86 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:40am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:14am:

What you have failed to take into account Andre is the lost revenue from lower commodity prices and the higher Australian dollar hurting our exports.....

In 2007 - Swan promised a surplus 1.5% of GDP

GDP have remained the same if not higher since 2007

Same blame lower commodity prices all you want - but Swan based his promise on GDP

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #87 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 11:03am

MOTR wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:59am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:56am:

I never said Howard got us out of debt, ever.
I am not a rusted on voter and have no side, hence there is no reason to exaggerate anything for me.

But, within that 5 year period the country asset pool will not have adjusted by any base amount to significantly impact the gearing position ratio trend between gross and net.
As is basically proven by my two graphs which trend exactly the same.

Labor have increased the debt position both net and gross. Unnecessarily so in my opinion.
That is my point.

You can increase debt at the gross level and reduce net debt by increasing the asset position off which you borrow, nothing wrong with that.
Labor haven't done that, they just borrowed off a reasonably static asset reduction and therefore increased net and gross debt.
Poor management.

Please stop saying about me coming first in economics. It makes you look like you don't understand the university honours system.
Getting a first and coming first are not the same.
One of the Indian girls probably came first with 99% given those guys probably get beaten if they score any less.

Apologies, Andrei, I thought you were talking about fifth grade. But thanks for the Gish Gallop, Andrei, I needed a good laugh.

I am not interested in trading personal comments etc, but you would admit that the country is in a worse position economically than when Labor took over?

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« Last Edit: Mar 31^st, 2013 at 11:17am by Andrei.Hicks »

Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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MOTR

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #88 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 11:06am

Maqqa wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:40am:

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:14am:

What you have failed to take into account Andre is the lost revenue from lower commodity prices and the higher Australian dollar hurting our exports.....

In 2007 - Swan promised a surplus 1.5% of GDP

GDP have remained the same if not higher since 2007

Same blame lower commodity prices all you want - but Swan based his promise on GDP

Swan and Treasury were not expecting the decline in commodity prices to leave the dollar untouched. If the dollar had fallen as expected nominal GDP would have grown in line with expectations and the Treasury would have been the beneficiary of normal bracket creep.

So while the governmen's bottom line isn't where we expected it to be, it's been good for households who have been able to hold onto a larger chunk of their real wages.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: AAA rating partly attributed to low public debt.
Reply #89 - Mar 31^st, 2013 at 11:16am

philperth2010 wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 10:14am:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Mar 31^st, 2013 at 9:56am:

I never said Howard got us out of debt, ever.
I am not a rusted on voter and have no side, hence there is no reason to exaggerate anything for me.

But, within that 5 year period the country asset pool will not have adjusted by any base amount to significantly impact the gearing position ratio trend between gross and net.
As is basically proven by my two graphs which trend exactly the same.

Labor have increased the debt position both net and gross. Unnecessarily so in my opinion.
That is my point.

You can increase debt at the gross level and reduce net debt by increasing the asset position off which you borrow, nothing wrong with that.
Labor haven't done that, they just borrowed off a reasonably static asset reduction and therefore increased net and gross debt.
Poor management.

Please stop saying about me coming first in economics. It makes you look like you don't understand the university honours system.
Getting a first and coming first are not the same.
One of the Indian girls probably came first with 99% given those guys probably get beaten if they score any less.

What you have failed to take into account Andre is the lost revenue from lower commodity prices and the higher Australian dollar hurting our exports.....The massive tax cuts used by Howard and Rudd to bribe the electorate plunged the budget into structural deficit reducing revenue intake due to lower prices and lower tax receipts.....The Coalition proposed larger tax cuts instead of a one off stimulus to combat the GFC which would have plunged the budget further into structural deficit.....Revenue has plunged due to the GFC and tax measures introduced by the ALP to address this problem will be dumped by an Abbott Government.....During the Howard years commodity prices and tax receipts increased above expectations providing a surplus with little or no fiscal restraint by Howard and Costello.....When the GFC hit the budget could not sustain the spending Howard and Costello had locked into the forward estimates.....Providing massive incentives and tax payer funding to high income earners during the Howard years has become unsustainable and wasteful.....Unless this basic imbalance is addressed taxpayers will continue to fund the lifestyles of the rich and famous......Is that really what a Government should claim is an achievement???

Huh

Phil when Wayne Swan announced his infamous "hell or high water" about a surplus.
Rio Tinto and BHP both said the forward forecasting of ore prices was too high and they had used much lower in their budgets.

Swan pressed ahead and the Government continued with their spending based on too high projections.

Now you've got the situation where we as a company have been told by the Australian Federal Government they are cutting our R&D tax offset on fracking of shale gas off the coast because of budget cuts?? Cuts needed as a result of over spending caused by debt increases.

We understand though a Liberal Government will reinstate our grant.
It's worth millions.

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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde

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