Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change

John Smith

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #75 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:32pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

You have proved for some time that you cry when you realise labor and greens are going to get crushed at the next election.

and then you say

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

That is enough for me to fight for Abbott to the end

the problem is that if you believed the first statement, you wouldn't have needed to make the second statement ...

as for the third part of your statement
progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

An added bonus is that his policy direction is pretty close to what I want.

What policies? what direction? he has lots of ideas but no real policies, and he has at some point or other advocated every possible direction ... maybe you can explain it .

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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #76 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:35pm

John Smith wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:32pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

You have proved for some time that you cry when you realise labor and greens are going to get crushed at the next election.

and then you say

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

That is enough for me to fight for Abbott to the end

the problem is that if you believed the first statement, you wouldn't have needed to make the second statement ...

as for the third part of your statement
progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

An added bonus is that his policy direction is pretty close to what I want.

What policies? what direction? he has lots of ideas but no real policies, and he has at some point or other advocated every possible direction ... maybe you can explain it .

WTHell was that Roll Eyes

Think you need to rethink and retype.

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John Smith Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 74217 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change Reply #77 - Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:36pm nooo, you just need to think
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freediver

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #78 - Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:12pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:21pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 9:15pm:

Dnarever wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 6^th, 2013 at 8:18pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 5^th, 2013 at 5:18pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 5^th, 2013 at 5:16pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2013 at 10:16pm:

freediver wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2013 at 9:32pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2013 at 10:16pm:

Ill take 2009 and even better 2011. Then when he goes to an election, he has given his views for you to vote on. As an added bonus, 2011 is the better view to vote on. The man has an open mind, so shows a good trait for leadership.

So you agree with these two statements for example, rather than the earlier (2009) version?

climate change is real, humanity does make a contribution to it and we’ve got to take effective action against it

I think that climate change is real. I think that mankind makes a contribution and I think that we should put in place reasonable policies to deal with credible threats

I agree with Abbotts transition(especially because of the position he came from and then to) and direct action. How far he wants to take "reasonable action" will determine my future vote. I am of the view of keeping the planet clean of particulates and poisons, not concerned with co2.

Do you think Abbotts "transition" (love the euphemism) on climate change science is all about particulates and poisons, not C02? You appear to be agreeing and disagreeing with him at the same time.

Yes. He is the closest to what I want and no, he does not specifically deal with my issues.

Longy can you explain in what ways he is close to what you want, given that he has now jumped on the climate change and CO2 bandwagon?

He is close to what everyone wants - he simultaniously supports everything and nothing, vote for Tony and you can't lose - you also can't win.

My thought is that his true position is the its all BS one.

Yes. The closest to what everyone wants (because he believes something must be done) Wink

and with 14 words you've just proven you are nothing but a puppet and Abbott is your puppet master.

You have proved for some time that you cry when you realise labor and greens are going to get crushed at the next election.

That is enough for me to fight for Abbott to the end. An added bonus is that his policy direction is pretty close to what I want.

Sorry for calling you Longy back there. Don't you think it is a bit naive to fight for someone till the end when they don't even represent your views?

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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #79 - Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:17pm

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:12pm:

Sorry for calling you Longy back there. Don't you think it is a bit naive to fight for someone till the end when they don't even represent your views?

Well that all depends how close/far away they are from my views compared to the other mob. Also how bad the other mob are at day to day governing. Also if the other mob have done the extreme no no at election time to gain power at any cost.

Dont worry, its all been weighed up and yes we can all have differing opinions.

NP you call me anything you like.

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« Last Edit: Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:22pm by progressiveslol »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change Reply #80 - Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:30pm Would you mind explaining your views on the science? For the economics, do you think it makes most sense to choose the cheapest way to reduce emissions (provided it works)?
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Makka Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 803 Gender:	Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change Reply #81 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:08am You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature. What is the economics sense for Australia to make a reduction when it make no difference to GLOBAL temperature because MOST of the Appendix 1 countries are still blowing their emission targets
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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #82 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:16am

Makka wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:08am:

You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature.

What is the economics sense for Australia to make a reduction when it make no difference to GLOBAL temperature because MOST of the Appendix 1 countries are still blowing their emission targets

I think it goes something like this:

If the dumb country does it and keeps doing it, it will force the smart countries to follow, all done through the special powers of empathy. Smart countries dont do things like this by the numbers, but they may feel sorry for us in the end.

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progressiveslol

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #83 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:19am

freediver wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

Would you mind explaining your views on the science?

For the economics, do you think it makes most sense to choose the cheapest way to reduce emissions (provided it works)?

About the science, keeping it short, debatable or worse.

Economics, not always either way.

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freediver

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #84 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 5:02pm

Progs I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you elaborate please? Are you afraid to offer your own opinion in case you disagree with Abbott?

Quote:

You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature.

Makka there are plenty of things I have actually said that you could respond too rather than making something up. Both major parties have almost identical policies of linking our emissions reduction targets with foreign countries including China and India.

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freediver

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #85 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:33pm

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:16am:

Makka wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:08am:

You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature.

What is the economics sense for Australia to make a reduction when it make no difference to GLOBAL temperature because MOST of the Appendix 1 countries are still blowing their emission targets

I think it goes something like this:

If the dumb country does it and keeps doing it, it will force the smart countries to follow, all done through the special powers of empathy. Smart countries dont do things like this by the numbers, but they may feel sorry for us in the end.

I guess you never heard the argument that how to reduce emissions and how much to reduce them by are different questions?

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Political Animal

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #86 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:39pm

Does it matter? The tax and ETS will be dead come sept and the direct action is capped at $3.2bn and not a penny more.

Imagine how competitive Australia will be in the carbon markets when they manage to reduce the maximum amount of CO2 for the least amount possible. Everyone will want a slice of that $3.2bn with the highest reducers pulling the big bucks. We can sell the technology all over the world.

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they come here for a better life.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change Reply #87 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 9:16am Are you sure about that? Tony Abbott for example has spent a significant part of his political career promoting a carbon tax and has scheduled another backflip on the issue for 2015 - the same year that Labor has legislated a shift from a tax to an ETS.
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Makka

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #88 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:44am

freediver wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 5:02pm:

Progs I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you elaborate please? Are you afraid to offer your own opinion in case you disagree with Abbott?

Quote:

You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature.

Makka there are plenty of things I have actually said that you could respond too rather than making something up. Both major parties have almost identical policies of linking our emissions reduction targets with foreign countries including China and India.

Which part of that sentence did I "make up"?

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Makka

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Re: Abbott's Science and Economics of Climate Change
Reply #89 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:49am

freediver wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:33pm:

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:16am:

Makka wrote on Apr 10^th, 2013 at 12:08am:

You keep talking about "Australia" reducing emissions as if it will reduce GLOBAL temperature.

What is the economics sense for Australia to make a reduction when it make no difference to GLOBAL temperature because MOST of the Appendix 1 countries are still blowing their emission targets

I think it goes something like this:

If the dumb country does it and keeps doing it, it will force the smart countries to follow, all done through the special powers of empathy. Smart countries dont do things like this by the numbers, but they may feel sorry for us in the end.

I guess you never heard the argument that how to reduce emissions and how much to reduce them by are different questions?

How much to reduce by
The proposed reason for reducing emissions is to reduce GLOBAL temperature

The science is NOT settled on human's contribution of global temperature

We don't even know in percentage terms how much humans are responsible for

How we reduce
If the science is not settled then cutting emissions would do the following
(1) If humans contribute bugger all to the overall carbon equation then reducing it makes bugger all difference
(2) If humans are the major cause of global temperature change and it's already TOO LATE as some are claiming then reducing emissions would make bugger all difference

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