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Why are we in debt (Read 3562 times)
hawil
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #30 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 4:55pm
 
woof woof wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 10:08am:
So if labor have been in for 6 years why haven't they moved to close down these supposed tax loop holes??

maybe there aren't as many holes as you think???

Do you think that Labour is any better than  the other politicians; they use the tax loopholes themselves and do not want to close them.
Just take note of what Crean and other Labour politicians are saying about the super rorts.
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Aussie
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #31 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:05pm
 
Quote:
Just take note of what Crean and other Labour politicians are saying about the super rorts.


What 'super rorts?'

Wink
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woof woof
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #32 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:16pm
 
It wasn't enough that they cut the contributions down to 25K.

Now they are going to tax the funds earnings, so if the fund loses money does that then become a tax deduction??
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Aussie
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #33 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:27pm
 
woof woof wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:16pm:
It wasn't enough that they cut the contributions down to 25K.

Now they are going to tax the funds earnings, so if the fund loses money does that then become a tax deduction??


Link, or you are dribbling.

Wink
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cods
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #34 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:28pm
 
John S wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 10:44am:
You people give me the shytes always going on about how the government is in debt. Can the government service the debt, if they can't that is when you are in trouble.

How many of you are in debt? I bet none of you are debt free.

A government that always has a surplus is not a good government, all it is do is taxing us too much or not supplying the services or infrastructure that the people want or need.




I AM...


govt debt.. is ok... now I have heard everything..

remember that valleyboy... because I will remember it...LOL>. GOVT DEBT IS GOOD>>more so if its LABOR DEBT>..

even though we have precious  little to show for it... ALLS GOOD>> valley boy says so..




as long as we can pay it..LOL>. thats why swanny is looking very hungrily at super funds... they bring tears to his eyes....

didnt he tell us he had taken a terrific blow at the tax office... revenue is downnnnnnnnnn..


..I bet he is cursing that debt he has to pay back. Cry Cry


has anyon e mentioned the $21bn surplus he inherited????????.. I didnt think so.
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adelcrow
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #35 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:36pm
 
A total debt of 10% of our yearly income or a long and deep recession...the neo cons have chosen so no complaining when Abbott /Hockey gives us a rerun of the Fraser/Howard years
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cods
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #36 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:36pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:27pm:
woof woof wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:16pm:
It wasn't enough that they cut the contributions down to 25K.

Now they are going to tax the funds earnings, so if the fund loses money does that then become a tax deduction??


Link, or you are dribbling.

Wink

Simon Crean will fight any tax on superannuation
BY:LANAI SCARR From: News Limited Network April 01, 2013 9:47AM
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Crean would fight super shift ...
Simon Crean




Simon Crean is against changes to superannuation. File  picture: John Feder Source: News Limited
DUMPED cabinet minister Simon Crean says there is widespread discontent in the Labor caucus over a potential plan to raid superannuation contributions and earnings in the May budget.

Mr Crean, who was integral in bringing on last month’s leadership showdown between Julia Gillard and Kevin Rudd, said this morning he would oppose any moves by his own party to tax superannuation retrospectively.

“I don’t have a problem if we are going to improve adequacy going forward,” Mr Crean told ABC News 24.

“But we have got to draw the line if there is any attempt to tax retrospectively what people have accumulated because that is tantamount to taxing people surpluses – your surpluses – to fund our surplus.

"That’s not on.”

Asked if a lot of people within the Labor caucus shared his concern over potential changes to superannuation by Wayne Swan in the May 14 budget, Mr Crean responded: “They do”.


“I am not too sure at this stage what it is that is being proposed by those in the cabinet that are speaking about this, what I urge them to do is frame this debate sensibly,” he said.

Speculation has mounted that Labor plans to raid the superannuation contributions and earnings of wealthy Australians in order to help pay for some of its key policies like the Gonski education reforms and the National Disability Insurance Scheme.

Two weeks ago Mr Crean sat in cabinet as Regional Australia minister. He was sacked by Ms Gillard after publicly calling for a leadership spill between her and Mr Rudd.

Last night Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said he couldn’t guarantee an incoming Coalition government would repeal any changes to superannuation.

He said his party would oppose such changes but if passed they may not be able to be repealed immediately.

“What we can’t do is solve all the problems that this bad government has created overnight,” Mr Abbott told Sky News.

“There are many things that this government has done that we don’t like but it will take time to repair the damage that this government has done.”

Asked by News Limited this morning if he would consider crossing the floor if the superannuation changes came to a vote in parliament, Mr Crean said he was not getting ahead of himself.

“I have never threatened to cross the floor on any issue and I am not going to start now,” he said.

“Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Let’s frame the argument on the debate.”

Mr Crean wouldn’t say if he had received any feedback from Julia Gillard or Wayne Swan over his comments on superannuation.

“I’ve said what I have so say, so let’s just leave it at that,” he said.

The government has been accused of engaging in class warfare over retirement savings, with the opposition warning Labor is planning a "sneak attack" on super funds in the May budget, The Australian reports.

Trade Minister Craig Emerson on Sunday said his party had no plans to lift taxes on the superannuation of ordinary Australians but that super savings of the "fabulously wealthy" should be debated.

"People who are fabulously wealthy gaining effectively an advantage by putting their money into superannuation and being taxed at 15 per cent, where the everyday Australian may be facing a tax of 30 per cent, I think does enliven a debate," he told Sky News on Sunday.

"We are not seeking to impose new taxes on the superannuation accounts of ordinary Australians.

"But there is a legitimate debate about the very top end."






hahahaha.. that must of course include themselves.. dont you hope?
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muso
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #37 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:38pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:27pm:
woof woof wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:16pm:
It wasn't enough that they cut the contributions down to 25K.

Now they are going to tax the funds earnings, so if the fund loses money does that then become a tax deduction??


Link, or you are dribbling.

Wink


He's going beyond cutting and pasting, and thinking for himself. It's a reasonable proposition that if a fund is taxed on its earnings,  any losses should be a tax deduction.

Of course it wouldn't work that way, because common decency in politics has been replaced by desperate grabs for any funds that are seen as fair game.

What happened in Cypus should be a wake-up call. 
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woof woof
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #38 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:25pm
 
A total debt of 10% OK thats this year what will it be next year 12%
Then what about the year after 15%

see a trend here?


Now sure we might be servicing that debt but the gov is living beyond its means with no sign of it ever getting into surplus territory.

Surplus territory bahahahahahahahaha

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woof woof
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #39 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:26pm
 
I wonder if Swan will attempt to do a Cypruss and take 50% of all bank customers deposits, or is it 70%
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Dnarever
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #40 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:38pm
 
woof woof wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:25pm:
A total debt of 10% OK thats this year what will it be next year 12%
Then what about the year after 15%

see a trend here?


Now sure we might be servicing that debt but the gov is living beyond its means with no sign of it ever getting into surplus territory.

Surplus territory bahahahahahahahaha




The current negative position is built from the global downturn where government income has fallen while the committed spending was mostly locked in. The previous Liberal government working in a once in a lifetime economic boom had geared our economy to be dependant on that continuing in order to little more than break even.

This government have been cutting back as much as they could whittling away at things like unnecessary middle class welfare etc. While the forecast surplus for this year looks to have been derailed the positive result is undeniably not too far away if this government continues.

On the other hand you need to look at what the opposition have been saying and doing, you immediately find over $100 Billion of unfunded spending with an impact guaranteeing no surplus in the foreseeable future if they are elected.

As Peter Costello and many others understand Tony Abbott is an economic incompetent who can only lead economic vandals into power.




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hawil
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #41 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:43pm
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:05pm:
Quote:
Just take note of what Crean and other Labour politicians are saying about the super rorts.


What 'super rorts?'

Wink

The AFR article “Call to scale back super tax breaks” 21’st March 2013 in which Mr.Ian Silk of Australian Super is reported as saying that the tax breaks for super are unsustainable, has really brought the super industry exponents out the woodwork.
In the AFR , Monday 1’st of April, Jennifer Hewett writes “Second grab for the piggy bank”, (whose  piggy bank) the retirees with a million $ assets, or the managers of the retail super funds,
earning in excess of $500,000, managing workers super funds of less than $50,000.
The same day, on page 29, there is an article by John Kehoe, “The great super grab”
Another article in the same paper, Concerns grow over super tax rises” the disgruntled politicians have their gripes; I wonder how many of them sit on boards of industry super funds, earning a hefty remuneration on top of their parliamentary salaries.
The organizations which should be looking after the interests of workers with low super balances, like the Unions are surprisingly silent, because many of their leaders are sitting on boards of their members super funds.
The organizations representing retirees with modest defined super incomes, like ACPSRO (Australian Council of Public Sector Retiree Organisations) also do not seem to read the financial media, which will always go in to bat for super rich.
The Prime Minister Mr.Howard , in 2007 introduced the tax-free super for the over sixties and Gillard has backed off, of trying to reverse that decision, although as long as it stays in place, the cost to the government will rise exponentially and be unsustainable in the future. If the government abolishes the means test of the basic pension and all the tax concessions for super, what gripes should the owners of million dollar super assets have? The only gripe could be, that they could claim, that they benefit more from the tax concessions for super, than they would gain from receipt of the old-age pension, which after all would be taxable.

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hawil
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #42 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:49pm
 
MOTR wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 1:59pm:
Mnemonic wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 1:02pm:
MOTR wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 11:18am:
It's important not to confuse net debt with gross debt. Net debt is the best measure of a government's indebtedness and it's servicing requirements. Howard delivered a number of surpluses and that along with asset sales allowed him to pay down debt. Howard also benefitted from the economic reforms of the previous government, a mining boom and from growth in domestic demand driven by an escalation in household debt.


What about liquidity? If we do have a financial crisis here in Australia and the government panicked and sold off its assets, that wouldn't be good. It's not good when you're forced to sell your assets.


It's not good when poor economic policy leaves you unemployed and you're forced to sell your assets to put food on the table.

Former Austrian chancellor Bruno Kreisky famously once said, “A few billion more in debt will give me less sleepless nights than a few hundred thousand out of work."


It surprises that Bruno Kreisky was that well known to be mentioned on this forum.
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #43 - Apr 1st, 2013 at 7:04pm
 
hawil wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 6:43pm:
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 5:05pm:
Quote:
Just take note of what Crean and other Labour politicians are saying about the super rorts.


What 'super rorts?'

Wink

The AFR article “Call to scale back super tax breaks” 21’st March 2013 in which Mr.Ian Silk of Australian Super is reported as saying that the tax breaks for super are unsustainable, has really brought the super industry exponents out the woodwork.
In the AFR , Monday 1’st of April, Jennifer Hewett writes “Second grab for the piggy bank”, (whose  piggy bank) the retirees with a million $ assets, or the managers of the retail super funds,
earning in excess of $500,000, managing workers super funds of less than $50,000.
The same day, on page 29, there is an article by John Kehoe, “The great super grab”
Another article in the same paper, Concerns grow over super tax rises” the disgruntled politicians have their gripes; I wonder how many of them sit on boards of industry super funds, earning a hefty remuneration on top of their parliamentary salaries.
The organizations which should be looking after the interests of workers with low super balances, like the Unions are surprisingly silent, because many of their leaders are sitting on boards of their members super funds.
The organizations representing retirees with modest defined super incomes, like ACPSRO (Australian Council of Public Sector Retiree Organisations) also do not seem to read the financial media, which will always go in to bat for super rich.
The Prime Minister Mr.Howard , in 2007 introduced the tax-free super for the over sixties and Gillard has backed off, of trying to reverse that decision, although as long as it stays in place, the cost to the government will rise exponentially and be unsustainable in the future. If the government abolishes the means test of the basic pension and all the tax concessions for super, what gripes should the owners of million dollar super assets have? The only gripe could be, that they could claim, that they benefit more from the tax concessions for super, than they would gain from receipt of the old-age pension, which after all would be taxable.



Yeas.....and has anything actually happened?

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muso
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Re: Why are we in debt
Reply #44 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 11:27am
 
Aussie wrote on Apr 1st, 2013 at 7:04pm:
Yeas.....and has anything actually happened?

Wink


Put it this way - If it is not kept as a high profile issue, then something will happen.

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