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War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished? (Read 7448 times)

FriYAY

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #45 - Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:01pm

Karnal wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 2:09pm:

FriYAY wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 10:28am:

Have you seen the Blair speech?

It is interesting to see him talk about being a new PM, and having all these ideas/ideals for his country and then…..people start flying planes into buildings in the US.

Saddam had and used WMD on the Kurds, why does everyone brush over that little fact?

Tony Blair was the PM of Britain. A few Saudi and British nationals fly planes into the US in 2001, and Bush and Blair want to invade Iraq because Saddam used gas on the Kurds in 1980?

It is always interesting to hear Blair talk, but his judgement on Iraq was wrong. He spent all his political capital encouraging his party to support the invasion of Iraq, and used up his popularity with the British people, who came to see him as a neo-con stooge, not a strong, idealistic leader. He then wasted his good standing with Europe and the UN, and for what?

Blair's failings in Iraq now define his legacy. His vision for a strong, multilateral security force to defeat tyrants was destroyed by his alliance with the US in a pointless, imperialistic war. This is Blair's real failing - not so much the failure of Iraq, but the failure of his vision, which could have been historic.

Just think - the League of Nations and the UN both failed to establish a security force that could establish peace around the world, enforce demilitarization, and prevent world war. After Serbia, and then Rwanda, there was a window of opportunity and political will. This is what drove Blair, and many in the US and UN at the end of the cold war.

If Blair had listened to his own party, his own people, and the UN, he may well have made some progress on this vision. Instead, he followed the agenda of naked US aggression and self-interest. In the end, of course, it wasn't the politics that did him in, but the military failure.

For Blair, Iraq was meant to be the start of a new international "coalition of the willing". This is an age-old European project, going back to the end of the Napoleonic wars and, following WWI, the establishment of the League of Nations. The League failed to get the US to join, and it failed to establish an international security force. Ultimately, it failed to prevent the rise of the Nazis. With the establishment of the EU, the end of the Cold War, the success of the new international court in Brussels, and Clinton's eventual willingness to engage in Serbia, the signs were right.

But then Blair went and joined Bush. He believed, of course, that this favour would be quid-pro-quo, but he was used in the US's own game. When Iraq turned nasty, everyone realized how futile such a project of international peacekeeping through war could really get - and how long. Twelve years on and we're still in Afghanistan.

Blair had a noble objective, but history - and the world - was against him. He should have listened.

Now, Europe is floundering, and the world is on an isolationist path again. Blair - and the world - missed the opportunity of creating a viable international peacekeeping force.

And this is the real failure of Iraq.

OK, was just wondering if you’d seen that speech.

Don’t know WTF the 1st paragraph is all about.

Are you denying SH had and used WMD?

I never said his (or anyone else’s) judgment on Iraq was right.

I thought his speech shed light on what others just blather on about on forums.

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Ex Dame Pansi

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #46 - Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm

I hate murderous dictators as much as the next person, but this is much worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did.

The people of Iraq are not better off post Saddam.

Like the people of Britain regarding the death of Thatcher, the people of Iraq will surely be celebrating when the last American troop flies out.
.......................................................................

‘Iraq's environmental catastrophe worse than Hiroshima’

Ten years ago, invading American troops and their allies deliberately tested all sorts of weapons, contaminating Iraqi the environment for hundreds of years to come and reducing citizens' life expectancies to 30 years, an Iraqi doctor told RT.

Over the ten years of occupation, Iraqi citizens have been developing alarmingly growing numbers of medical conditions, the Iraqi cardiologist, Dr. Omar al-Kubaisi, told RT’s Arabic-language sister channel Rusiya Al-Yaum.

http://rt.com/op-edge/iraq-environmental-catastrophe-hiroshima-533/

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Hendrix
andrei said: Great isn't it? Seeing boatloads of what is nothing more than human garbage turn up.....

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Karnal

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #47 - Apr 9^th, 2013 at 4:44pm

True, Pansi. This is what modern war does. What it also does is mobilize populations against aggressors. Wars like Iraq and Afghanistan lead to terrorism, just as the military occupation of Europe in WWII fostered partisans.

There are wars, however, that are just. If Europe had been able to prevent Germany mobilizing in the 1930s, this would have been a monumental judgement call, but it failed through competing, sovereign interests. This is how military hegemonies arise, and it's why military powers like the US and ex-USSR become global sheriffs. In some cases, the fewer politicians the better.

You can't depose military dictators without a struggle - Saddam turned out to be a piece of cake. Mind you, it's who replaces them that's the problem. It's why George H W Bush left Saddam in power in the first Gulf War.

The Taliban were easy to depose because they're not united. But they are not easy to prevent for the same reason. Militarily, Afghanistan is a very tricky country to rule and wage war. The various tribes that made up the so-called Northern Alliance held their own mountains for years. The Taliban couldn't touch them.

12 years on and the situation is reversed. Many of those tribes have joined the Taliban. Some have joined the government. Others have become warlords in their own right, holding lawless territories even the US won't cross.

As the USSR and US have proven, even military global hegemonies can't defeat such forces. Some situations require military solutions. Others require political solutions. And others need to be left well alone (on paper, anyway - it's best that covert action does not leave a paper trail).

The US will never achieve military hegemony through its drone program. To achieve this sort of geopolitical presence, you require troops, and you need to be prepared to use them. There is only one country today with a centralized form of decision-making, a huge surplus population, very deep pockets, and the capacity, technology and industrial power to eventually rival the US.

The US will not go in our lifetimes, but I believe we will see the return of a bi-polar world in a very short space of time.

Yes, friends, China is the next cab off the rank.

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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished? Reply #48 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 3:22pm The Mission will never be accomplished in Afghanistan, a nation of warring tribes whose history goes back centuries. Some mad f....p is sure to seize power at some point and then it starts all over again just like in Upsy Down Town.
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Lord Herbert

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #49 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 4:10pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

I hate murderous dictators as much as the next person, but this is much worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did.

The people of Iraq are not better off post Saddam.

Nor were the English immediately upon the signing of the Magna Carta.

If the Iraqis can't handle democracy, then perhaps the US should appoint another Police State dictator to rule over them.

The Iraqis will do okay once they grow up and learn how to live in a secular democracy.

It's a bit like releasing long-term prisoners out into the community. It takes time to develop self-discipline and the maturity to be self-reliant without resorting to criminal activities.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Like the people of Britain regarding the death of Thatcher, the people of Iraq will surely be celebrating when the last American troop flies out.

Don't be fooled by the UK and Australia's leftwing press and TV news services. The vast majority in the UK are thankful for what she did to pull Britain out of the economic doldrums.

Iraq now has a chance to develop into a First World country just the same as Israel did. It's up to them. You can lead a horse to water ...

For myself, I think they're way too brainwashed with the cult of Islam to do themselves much good. Same with Afghanistan. And Turkey has been reverting back to theocratic rule for some years now.

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Ten years ago, invading American troops and their allies deliberately tested all sorts of weapons, contaminating Iraqi the environment for hundreds of years to come and reducing citizens' life expectancies to 30 years, an Iraqi doctor told RT.

Over the ten years of occupation, Iraqi citizens have been developing alarmingly growing numbers of medical conditions, the Iraqi cardiologist, Dr. Omar al-Kubaisi, told RT’s Arabic-language sister channel Rusiya Al-Yaum.

That has all yet to be independently verified.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #50 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 5:46pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

I hate murderous dictators as much as the next person, but this is much worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did.

The people of Iraq are not better off post Saddam.

Like the people of Britain regarding the death of Thatcher, the people of Iraq will surely be celebrating when the last American troop flies out.
.......................................................................

‘Iraq's environmental catastrophe worse than Hiroshima’

http://rt.com/files/opinionpost/1e/a5/d0/00/iraq-environmental.si.jpg

Ten years ago, invading American troops and their allies deliberately tested all sorts of weapons, contaminating Iraqi the environment for hundreds of years to come and reducing citizens' life expectancies to 30 years, an Iraqi doctor told RT.

Over the ten years of occupation, Iraqi citizens have been developing alarmingly growing numbers of medical conditions, the Iraqi cardiologist, Dr. Omar al-Kubaisi, told RT’s Arabic-language sister channel Rusiya Al-Yaum.

http://rt.com/op-edge/iraq-environmental-catastrophe-hiroshima-533/

The bit you left out with your link pansi-
Quote:

Greenpeace activists stand in front of a uranium oxide mixing vat outside the grounds of the Tuwaitha nuclear facility,30 km south of Bagdad, where it was allegedly dumped after being stolen by looters

Greenpeace have found Iraqi farmers washing radioactive barrels in the Tigris river, google greenpeace radioactive Iraq and read the links from Greenpeace on how radioactive materials were stored in schools.

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Karnal

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #51 - Apr 10^th, 2013 at 8:32pm

Red, have you even seen the "left wing media’s" reports on Thatcher?

Everybody’s been kissing her arse. Repeatedly.

Another thing: how do prisoners learn "self discipline" when they’re released from jail? They’ve just spent their sentence learning how to make shivs and cover their arses in the showers and spend 18 hours each day in cells.

How much more self discipline do you need to learn?

I’d say Muslims have no chance of ridding themselves of the cult of Islam - what do you think? I’d say no one’s going to brainwash them otherwise. The missionaries didn’t have much luck. Do you think the imams will do it?

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it_is_the_light

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #52 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 6:23pm

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=273954

http://www.blacklistednews.com/20%2C000_U.S._M-16s_Stolen_from_Unguarded_Warehou...

20,000 U.S. M-16s Stolen from Unguarded Warehouse in Kuwait
April 12, 2013

Part of the Syria op?

Via: World Tribune:

Kuwait has reported the theft of a massive amount of U.S. weapons. The Interior Ministry said thieves broke into a warehouse and stole a huge amount of firearms and ammunition. The ministry said 20,000 U.S.-origin M-16 assault rifles and 15,000 rounds for 9mm pistols were stolen.

“There were no guards during the break-in,” the ministry said on April 7.

ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96676	Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished? Reply #53 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 6:59pm On the physical plane, Kuwait is a long way from Afghanistan, Light. Is there an esoteric Freemasonic connection there?
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Soren

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #54 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:12pm

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

I hate murderous dictators as much as the next person, but this is much worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did.

The people of Iraq are not better off post Saddam.

Like the people of Britain regarding the death of Thatcher, the people of Iraq will surely be celebrating when the last American troop flies out.
.......................................................................

‘Iraq's environmental catastrophe worse than Hiroshima’

http://rt.com/files/opinionpost/1e/a5/d0/00/iraq-environmental.si.jpg

Ten years ago, invading American troops and their allies deliberately tested all sorts of weapons, contaminating Iraqi the environment for hundreds of years to come and reducing citizens' life expectancies to 30 years, an Iraqi doctor told RT.

Over the ten years of occupation, Iraqi citizens have been developing alarmingly growing numbers of medical conditions, the Iraqi cardiologist, Dr. Omar al-Kubaisi, told RT’s Arabic-language sister channel Rusiya Al-Yaum.

http://rt.com/op-edge/iraq-environmental-catastrophe-hiroshima-533/

Jeez, Russian Muslims telling us about the downside of invasions by non Arabs.

Never mind that islam spread by invasion. What matters is that 'muslim lands' are left to brutalise, oppress and debase their people any which way they like.
Sovereignty, innit.

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #55 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:35pm

Soren wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Ex Dame Pansi wrote on Apr 9^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

I hate murderous dictators as much as the next person, but this is much worse than anything Saddam Hussein ever did.

The people of Iraq are not better off post Saddam.

Like the people of Britain regarding the death of Thatcher, the people of Iraq will surely be celebrating when the last American troop flies out.
.......................................................................

‘Iraq's environmental catastrophe worse than Hiroshima’

http://rt.com/files/opinionpost/1e/a5/d0/00/iraq-environmental.si.jpg

Ten years ago, invading American troops and their allies deliberately tested all sorts of weapons, contaminating Iraqi the environment for hundreds of years to come and reducing citizens' life expectancies to 30 years, an Iraqi doctor told RT.

Over the ten years of occupation, Iraqi citizens have been developing alarmingly growing numbers of medical conditions, the Iraqi cardiologist, Dr. Omar al-Kubaisi, told RT’s Arabic-language sister channel Rusiya Al-Yaum.

http://rt.com/op-edge/iraq-environmental-catastrophe-hiroshima-533/

You mean with western clearance and support

How long was Saddam on the US books for?

How is that wonderful example of democracy going - the GREAT SAUDI ARABIA

The great friend of the USA

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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it_is_the_light

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #56 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:48pm

the war in afghanistan has produced this

through the division that is war brought about unto you

by the military industrial complex..

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/baes-superdrone-taranis-to-be-tested-...

BAE's superdrone Taranis to be tested at Woomera
by: Ian McPhedran, Defence Writer
From: News Limited Network
April 14, 2013 12:00AM

The unmanned stealth combat aircraft Taranis, made by BAE systems, which is being tested at Woomera. Picture: Supplied Source: Supplied
THE most secretive piece of airspace in Australia - the RAAF-run Woomera flight test range in South Australia - will make history later this year when the world's first unmanned supersonic stealth combat aircraft makes its maiden test flight above the desert.
Extreme secrecy surrounds the joint British-French project and the drone called a Taranis, named after the Celtic god of thunder and built by a British/French consortium led by aerospace giant BAE Systems.
Resembling an insect and using the delta-shaped "flying wing'' technology favoured by modern-day stealth aircraft such as America's B-2 stealth bomber, Taranis is designed to fly above the speed of sound over long distances undetected by enemy radars to attack targets with an array of precision missiles and bombs.
Unlike current generation attack drones such as Predator and Reaper, that are used extensively to attack insurgent targets in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen, Taranis will carry the latest in remote defensive technology so it can also evade missiles and hostile manned aircraft.
Unmanned drones are unlikely to ever engage in a dog fight with a manned fighter jet, but the technology is being developed. A more likely future scenarios a long-range missile fight between combat drones.
The Woomera restricted area has already played host to a number of world firsts including the maiden flight of a scram jet engine that could power aircraft to speeds in excess 8500 kmh or Mach 7 - seven times the speed of sound.
That would enable future passenger jets to fly a sub-orbital trajectory from Sydney to London in two hours.
The rocket range is the second busiest launch pad in the world after NASA's Cape Canaveral in Florida.
In 2009 BAE Systems flew a propeller driven drone known as a Mantis at Woomera.
The military regularly uses the range to test missiles and foreign governments use the vast test site for a variety of top-secret test missions.
The company said Taranis was designed to utilise the most advanced means possible of achieving low observability.
"This includes both the systems and technology inside the aircraft as well as the shape, design and finish of the exterior of the aircraft. This does mean that there are aspects of the exterior design of the aircraft which remain classified,'' it said.
Other details such as range and top speed are also top-secret.
The development of pilotless combat aircraft is controversial and many regard the risks of mistakes associated with removing humans from the kill chain as unacceptable.
Several American companies are also developing unmanned fighters and helicopters for land and sea based operations.
A senior American aerospace executive told News Limited that the fifth-generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, being purchased by the RAAF, will be the last manned fighter built in the US.

TARANIS: The future of air combat
* World's first supersonic (above speed of sound) stealth unmanned combat aircraft
* Flying delta wing design 12 metres long with 10-metre wingspan
* Flies on pre-programmed flight path guided by on-board computer
* Stealth technology makes it virtually invisible to enemy radars
* Can select its own targets but final 'kill' decision taken by mission command
* Destroy targets with onboard missiles and provides intelligence back to command
* First flight to follow hundreds of hours of ground testing and one million man hours

ॐ May Much LOVE and CHRISTS LIGHT be upon and within us all.... namasté ▲ - : ) ╰დ╮ॐ╭დ╯

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Chimp_Logic

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Mawson Base
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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #57 - Apr 13^th, 2013 at 11:42pm

it_is_the_light wrote on Apr 13^th, 2013 at 10:48pm:

the war in afghanistan has produced this

through the division that is war brought about unto you

by the military industrial complex..

http://www.news.com.au/technology/sci-tech/baes-superdrone-taranis-to-be-tested-...

BAE's superdrone Taranis to be tested at Woomera
by: Ian McPhedran, Defence Writer
From: News Limited Network
April 14, 2013 12:00AM

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2013/04/13/1226619/727870-taranis.jpg

The unmanned stealth combat aircraft Taranis, made by BAE systems, which is being tested at Woomera. Picture: Supplied Source: Supplied
THE most secretive piece of airspace in Australia - the RAAF-run Woomera flight test range in South Australia - will make history later this year when the world's first unmanned supersonic stealth combat aircraft makes its maiden test flight above the desert.
Extreme secrecy surrounds the joint British-French project and the drone called a Taranis, named after the Celtic god of thunder and built by a British/French consortium led by aerospace giant BAE Systems.
Resembling an insect and using the delta-shaped "flying wing'' technology favoured by modern-day stealth aircraft such as America's B-2 stealth bomber, Taranis is designed to fly above the speed of sound over long distances undetected by enemy radars to attack targets with an array of precision missiles and bombs.
Unlike current generation attack drones such as Predator and Reaper, that are used extensively to attack insurgent targets in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen, Taranis will carry the latest in remote defensive technology so it can also evade missiles and hostile manned aircraft.
Unmanned drones are unlikely to ever engage in a dog fight with a manned fighter jet, but the technology is being developed. A more likely future scenarios a long-range missile fight between combat drones.
The Woomera restricted area has already played host to a number of world firsts including the maiden flight of a scram jet engine that could power aircraft to speeds in excess 8500 kmh or Mach 7 - seven times the speed of sound.
That would enable future passenger jets to fly a sub-orbital trajectory from Sydney to London in two hours.
The rocket range is the second busiest launch pad in the world after NASA's Cape Canaveral in Florida.
In 2009 BAE Systems flew a propeller driven drone known as a Mantis at Woomera.
The military regularly uses the range to test missiles and foreign governments use the vast test site for a variety of top-secret test missions.
The company said Taranis was designed to utilise the most advanced means possible of achieving low observability.
"This includes both the systems and technology inside the aircraft as well as the shape, design and finish of the exterior of the aircraft. This does mean that there are aspects of the exterior design of the aircraft which remain classified,'' it said.
Other details such as range and top speed are also top-secret.
The development of pilotless combat aircraft is controversial and many regard the risks of mistakes associated with removing humans from the kill chain as unacceptable.
Several American companies are also developing unmanned fighters and helicopters for land and sea based operations.
A senior American aerospace executive told News Limited that the fifth-generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, being purchased by the RAAF, will be the last manned fighter built in the US.

TARANIS: The future of air combat
* World's first supersonic (above speed of sound) stealth unmanned combat aircraft
* Flying delta wing design 12 metres long with 10-metre wingspan
* Flies on pre-programmed flight path guided by on-board computer
* Stealth technology makes it virtually invisible to enemy radars
* Can select its own targets but final 'kill' decision taken by mission command
* Destroy targets with onboard missiles and provides intelligence back to command
* First flight to follow hundreds of hours of ground testing and one million man hours

and excellent tool for the modern western corporate terrorist

you don't even need to leave home

you can slaughter your own civilians and civilians in other nations from an air conditioned padded room

Obama will love this little toy

Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Lord Herbert

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Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished?
Reply #58 - Apr 14^th, 2013 at 8:00am

What a bunch of thumb-sucking self-hating bed-wetters we have here.

"boo-hoo-hoo ... America and her allies are the Evil Empire, and all those virtuous Middle Eastern dictatorships that still march in lock-step with 7th century social values are the poor downtrodden victims of Western military imperialism ... boo-hoo-hoo ... 's'not fair!" (rapidly stamps feet before blowing nose with red-coloured handkerchief).

Wake up to yourselves, you simpering leftwing morons.

If you still haven't worked out who the good guys and the bad guys are, then you people should be registered with the federal police as a risk to public safety.

Anti-intuitive idiots.

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AaLF Junior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61 Gender:	Re: War in Afghanistan - Mission Accomplished? Reply #59 - Apr 14^th, 2013 at 6:34pm The bad guys are the invaders. The smart collaborators are the ones appearing off-shore to xmas island now. The dumb collaborators will be the ones appearing in multitudes on australian shores after the evil ones withdraw. The slow collaborators........
Back to top	"They took the whole Palestinian Nation, And locked us in this reservation....." some Ozzy vocab: bugger fkd dam fck bugger bugger smacking buggerng farked fu#ckers effing smacking IP Logged

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