Australian Politics Forum - Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..

Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea.. Reply #60 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 4:42pm So the Battle of Britain was unnecessary and Churchill lied to his people.
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Chard

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #61 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 5:07pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 4:42pm:

So the Battle of Britain was unnecessary and Churchill ied to his people.

Yes and no. No in that the Battle for Britain needed to be fought just to keep the Luftwaffe from rampaging over England if nothing else. Yes in that telling the public the Germans were going to invade drummed up much support, most notably by convincing the US House and Senate to officially throw American into the Allied corner of the war.

It's almost as if Churchill and FDR were colaborating. Oh, wait, they were.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea.. Reply #62 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 5:43pm Of course they were... I have read a great deal on the topic and never seen anything authoritative that British intelligence KNEW, rather than conjectured, that a Nazi invasion was impossible. Can you suggest any source worth looking at?
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Ringer Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 313 Mainland NZ Gender:	Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea.. Reply #63 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 5:54pm I expect we will have to wait a while for that..
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Ringer

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #64 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:06pm

Chard wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 5:07pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 4:42pm:

So the Battle of Britain was unnecessary and Churchill ied to his people.

Yes and no. No in that the Battle for Britain needed to be fought just to keep the Luftwaffe from rampaging over England if nothing else. Yes in that telling the public the Germans were going to invade drummed up much support, most notably by convincing the US House and Senate to officially throw American into the Allied corner of the war.

It's almost as if Churchill and FDR were colaborating. Oh, wait, they were.

The Battle Of Britain was very much related to plans of invasion. The Germans new they needed command of the skies over the invasion fleet. When they failed to destroy the RAF Operation Sealion was abandoned.

Ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy chappy!

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Chard

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #65 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:14pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Of course they were...

I have read a great deal on the topic and never seen anything authoritative that British intelligence KNEW, rather than conjectured, that a Nazi invasion was impossible.

Can you suggest any source worth looking at?

Peter Fleming and Richard Cox bothe wrote on the subject, either of their books "operation Sea Lion" is a good place to start. George Chalou's "The Secret War: The Office of Strategic Services in WWII" and Francis Hinsley's "British Intelligence in the Second World War" both give fairly in depth looks at just how pervasive US and British intelligence was. Have to hunt it down, but I'm pretty sure I've got a .pdf of Fleming's Operation Sea Lion if you're interested.

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:23pm by Chard »

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Chard

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #66 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:22pm

Ringer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:06pm:

Chard wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 5:07pm:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 4:42pm:

So the Battle of Britain was unnecessary and Churchill ied to his people.

Yes and no. No in that the Battle for Britain needed to be fought just to keep the Luftwaffe from rampaging over England if nothing else. Yes in that telling the public the Germans were going to invade drummed up much support, most notably by convincing the US House and Senate to officially throw American into the Allied corner of the war.

It's almost as if Churchill and FDR were colaborating. Oh, wait, they were.

The Battle Of Britain was very much related to plans of invasion. The Germans new they needed command of the skies over the invasion fleet. When they failed to destroy the RAF Operation Sealion was abandoned.

Defeating the RAF would still leave the RN to run roughshod over anything trying to cross the channel and still fails to address the fact that the Kriegsmarine simply did not have the sealift to move and supply an invasion of Britain, skippy.

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Ignorance is bliss, you must be a very happy chappy!

Ignorance can be corrected through education, meanwhile weapons-grade stupidity is incurable, moron. Go back to you village before someone puts out a missing persons notice for their idiot.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Ringer

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #67 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:36pm

Chard wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:22pm:

Defeating the RAF would still leave the RN to run roughshod over anything trying to cross the channel and still fails to address the fact that the Kriegsmarine simply did not have the sealift to move and supply an invasion of Britain, skippy..

The BBC reported 26 August 2010 that files had been released by MI5 detailing German plans for the invasion.

"It gives an indication of what might have happened if the Battle of Britain had gone the other way"

There is no doubt that Germany had plans for the invasion of England which were abandoned when they failed to destroy the RAF during the Battle of Britain.

BTW, the plan involved the use of barges (of which there were many in Europe) not a Kriegsmarine sealift.

You have a few gaps in that education.

Skippy? Don't think I have ever been called that before! Grin

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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea.. Reply #68 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:47pm Nice to see all the posts concentrating on the successful defence of Great Britain, enjoyable history lessons as they are and highly entertaining to boot....what happened to considering North Korea?
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Ringer Senior Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 313 Mainland NZ Gender:	Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea.. Reply #69 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:49pm No one considers North Korea.
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Chard

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #70 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:51pm

Ringer wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:36pm:

Chard wrote on Apr 7^th, 2013 at 6:22pm:

Defeating the RAF would still leave the RN to run roughshod over anything trying to cross the channel and still fails to address the fact that the Kriegsmarine simply did not have the sealift to move and supply an invasion of Britain, skippy..

There is no doubt that Germany had plans for the invasion of England which were abandoned when they failed to destroy the RAF during the Battle of Britain.

There's plenty of doubt considering Germany never had any serious intention of going through with their plan in the first place.

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BTW, the plan involved the use of barges (of which there were many in Europe) not a Kriegsmarine sealift.

Are you seriously this unbelievably stupid? It was the goddamned Kriegsmarine's idea to use barges in the first place. Even they knew that couldn't pull it off and they suggested river barges in order to point out just how unprepared they were to attempt landing and invasion force.

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Skippy? Don't think I have ever been called that before! Grin

Give it some time. I'm certain I'll probably upgrade you to being "Scooter" before the thread is done.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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Ringer

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #71 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 7:01pm

Thank you for the kind endearments but no amount of soft talking or wriggling on the hook can change the fact that you presented Lend Lease when I asked where America was when England was in danger of being invaded.

I have two problems with that, if you knew (which of course you don't) that England was never in danger of invasion you should have just said so instead of referring to Operation Sealion. The second is that Lend Lease was not implemented until some months after the period in question.

It has been a pleasure to 'discuss' this matter with you and I look further to our next meeting.

Pō Marie

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Chard Gold Member Offline Mein Führer! I can walk! Posts: 1077 Alabama, USA Gender:	Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea.. Reply #72 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 7:05pm Repeating a claim that you were not only proven wrong on, but also tried to lie about doesn't make thwt claim any less full of sh*t, Skippy.
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Ringer

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #73 - Apr 7^th, 2013 at 7:13pm

Oh dear, how can I possibly leave the board tonight when you continue with these pleasant words.

You have not proved anything, you can offer opinions but that is all they are.

Here is a summary of my position........ just to help you keep on track...

Germany planned and began preparations for an invasion of England. The plan required command of the sky over The Channel and with that in mind the Germans started a war against the RAF in particular targeting airfields and facilities in what became known as the Battle of Britain.

The Germans failed to destroy the RAF and shortly thereafter the German invasion plans were postponed (and never resurrected) .

Germany had plans for an invasion of England and had even begun the invasion plans by targeting the airfields of England.

America was nowhere to be seen while this was going on.

Your bringing up Lend Lease showed a lack of knowledge of the dates involved.

Good night, sleep tight.

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« Last Edit: Apr 7^th, 2013 at 7:34pm by Ringer »

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Grey

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Re: Lets take a moment to consider North Korea..
Reply #74 - Apr 8^th, 2013 at 12:53am

[quote author=Chard link=1365148798/47#47 date=1365310996]
You asked where the US was when Britain was under threat of invasion, not where we were when the Battle of Britian happened, you dishonest sh*t. I brought up Sealöwe to show that Britain never was under an actual threat of being invaded. Lend-Lease was an example of us not only selling the UK the weapons, munitions, and raw material they needed on one hell of a line of crefit.
[quote]

Right 'The Blitz' wasn't an aerial softening up in preparation for invasion, it was just Hitlers way of helping with urban renewal.

We know that America saw that war could be profitable, as long as you supplied but didn't use.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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