Australian Politics Forum - Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility

sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #105 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:02pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:55pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:47pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:34pm:

Quote:

Well I'll adress the re-writing in the next point, but to be clear
Keating has that record because he totally remodelled the Australian economy FOR THE BETTER.
You cannot make an omelet without breaking a few eggs & interest rates just happened to be those eggs.
BTW in 96 when Howard took over those rates were back down to 12/13 % & only feel the same amount again in Howard's 11 years.

but you arent pretending to rewrite history and so that is fine. keating did a reasonably good job. he did have the highest interest rates.

I dont mind debating facts but it it nice of facts remain consistent.

I was looking forward to seein you try to get your self out of explaining howard's iraq comments posted by dsmithy. Oh well. You always run away when it gets too hard Sad

you might also find i take one topic at a time. Howard messed up with iraq in the rationale. Whether he was right or wrong is a different matter. But apparently voter opinion only matters to labor supporters when it suits them. When they discover pricnipled positions then politics might change for the better.

Smithy was more referring to this, which is what you were asked to comment on:

Quote:

REWRITING HISTORY

John Howard gave a speech this week about his decision to go to war in Iraq. Refusing any of the criticism of the decision, he said the belief in weapons of mass destruction was the government's main justification for war.
It may seem like a distant, irrelevant historical detail now, but it cannot be left unchallenged.
The failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after the allied invasion was ''unexpected," according to Howard. The belief that Saddam Hussein possessed WMD's was ''near universal'' at the time. In speeches at the time he cited "recent production of chemical and biological weapons," and said that all key aspects of the program were larger and more advanced than before the Gulf War in 1991. Howard and Downer asserted that the threat to the world from Iraq's weapons of mass destruction was both great and immediate.
In this morning's Age, former secretary to the Intelligence Committee (2002-2007), Margaret Swieringa, calls him out.
"None of these arguments were true," writes Swierenga. "None of the government's arguments were supported by the intelligence presented to it by its own agencies." Her analysis is clinical.
Australian intelligence saw the same overseas reports that Howard did, and incorporated them into their assessments (as Andrew Wilkie explained when he first blew the whistle).
Howard ignored the advice of his own agencies to send Australia to an illegal war. Now he is engaged in a mendacious and dangerous attempt to rewrite history.
Nick Feik, EDITOR

Now, please, care to offer 2 cents on the article and its substance? Your previous attempt steered far from it.

Also, while you're at it, care to comments on the stats presented in the OP?

I think Longy is right here Al
Lets keep this thread on the OP, I really want to see either the OP shredded, which shouldn't be too hard as the economy is ruined(apparently according to Tone)
Or I look forward to those honest enough doing a Mea Culpa on Tony rhetoric.

start up an Iraq one it would also be fun to watch the dancing around those FACTS as well. Wink

you're right, in the interest of this thread, I'll leave Iraq as is, but the OP should definitely be kept bumped at the top. I just find it very interesting that when presented with stats they seem to steer as far away from here as possible. Longy makes an attempt, but only to try to discredit the author who had nothing to do with the stats.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility Reply #106 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:16pm Another busy day at work I see....
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MOTR

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #107 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:08pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:00pm:

Its Really very simple Mr Weekend.

If as you say the author is bias & cannot be trusted then do this

Quote:

– Real GDP has risen by 1.2 per cent (annualised growth rate of 2.5 per cent).

This is a load of crap, & here is a link which proves the falsehood of above

Quote:

– Employment has risen by 53,400 people, made up of 30,000 new full-time jobs and 23,400 part-time jobs. The annualised rate of job creation is around 95,000.

Again false, here is a quote from XXX speaking in this article[url][/url]which proves it

ETC ETC

it is the rewriting of history I am objecting to. Fraser left $9B debt. that is indisputable and not even soemthing to argue... well you'd think anyhow. Somehow, in the mind of the buffoon that semes to so often be a pro-labor writer, $9B becomes $40B. if you want to use the CPI adjusted figure then it was $19B out of the $96B.

it is just this remarkable and frankly dangerous rewriting of history that shoudl be of some concern to everyone. just like keating had the highest mortage rates (not Howard). keating left $96B of debt. But apparently, there is a new desire to change all those facts to somehow make the ALP look better.

To be non-partisan then I would now quote an example of a liberal rewriting labor past history. Only problem is I cant find one. If there is one I would condemn it just as much. We only have history once but apparently it is no longer considered static. history is free to be rewritten.

Where is debt mentioned in this article, longy.

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"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Makka

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #108 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:24pm

So MOTR label Tony's "COMMENTS" as wrecking ball

But fails to label the carbon tax as a wrecking ball?

You mean Tony is THAT powerful that his comment is a wrecking ball to the economy

But yet MOTR cannot bring himself/herself to label Labor's disastrous 6 years in government as a wrecking ball?

Over to you MOTR

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Dsmithy70 Gold Member Offline ire futuis vobismetipsis Posts: 13147 Newy Gender:	Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility Reply #109 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:27pm Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:16pm: Another busy day at work I see.... You'll notice my contributions don't start until about 2.45pm my pressing work is done & I've delegated the rest. Perks that come with seniority
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woody2014 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2044 NTH EAST VIC Gender:	Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility Reply #110 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:32pm Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:27pm: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:16pm: Another busy day at work I see.... You'll notice my contributions don't start until about 2.45pm my pressing work is done & I've delegated the rest. Perks that come with seniority Or driving taxi's
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Dsmithy70

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #111 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:35pm

woody2014 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:32pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:16pm:

Another busy day at work I see....

You'll notice my contributions don't start until about 2.45pm
my pressing work is done & I've delegated the rest.
Perks that come with seniority Wink

Or driving taxi's Grin

What ever helps you get through Wink

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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John Smith

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #112 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:41pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:31pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:16pm:

of course the fact the the worst post war global recession was in 82/83 is ignored just as is the fact that it followed on frmo a decade of global economic stagnation. all that context is conveniently ignored and suddenly $9B becaomes $40B. pure nonsens.

I might give that some credence if you hadn't been ignoring the biggest global collapse since the great depression for the last 6 years.

Cake & eating again

gfc didnt last 6 years nor did it start in 2007. it went for no more than a year in mosyt places and never even arrived here. If that were not the case then there would have at least been a recession. you listen to too many northern hemispshere commentators who forget the rest of the world which were largely unaffected other than by the dip in trade from the economic dunderheads up north. we are not stil lin the GFC now. Or how long are you going to use that argument?

It lasted a year? most countries still have not recovered , it wasn't a party or a conference you know? It didn't affect all of the world but it DID affect most of our trading partners. ... we went from a strong market for our goods to no market , if it was a business and it was able to incur a little debt but set itself up to recover you'd be praising the manager as very competant ... the only reason you b1tch is because it's labor ........

the 2004 tsunami didnt last 9 years but they are still recovering. the GFC is well and truly over and has been for years now.

pippylonglosser has spoken ... let it be so!

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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woody2014

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #113 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:43pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:35pm:

woody2014 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:32pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:16pm:

Another busy day at work I see....

You'll notice my contributions don't start until about 2.45pm
my pressing work is done & I've delegated the rest.
Perks that come with seniority Wink

Or driving taxi's Grin

What ever helps you get through Wink

Ah well that's sitting on the veranda ,watching the trees grow and listening to the birds sing .. Retirement's not so bad Wink

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THE DUMB LEFTIES ON THIS BOARD DONT KNOW IF THERE WINDING THEIR ARSE OR SCRATCHING THEIR WATCH

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John Smith

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #114 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:45pm

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 3:03pm:

John Smith wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:31pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:21pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 2:16pm:

of course the fact the the worst post war global recession was in 82/83 is ignored just as is the fact that it followed on frmo a decade of global economic stagnation. all that context is conveniently ignored and suddenly $9B becaomes $40B. pure nonsens.

I might give that some credence if you hadn't been ignoring the biggest global collapse since the great depression for the last 6 years.

Cake & eating again

gfc didnt last 6 years nor did it start in 2007. it went for no more than a year in mosyt places and never even arrived here. If that were not the case then there would have at least been a recession. you listen to too many northern hemispshere commentators who forget the rest of the world which were largely unaffected other than by the dip in trade from the economic dunderheads up north. we are not stil lin the GFC now. Or how long are you going to use that argument?

It lasted a year? most countries still have not recovered , it wasn't a party or a conference you know? It didn't affect all of the world but it DID affect most of our trading partners. ... we went from a strong market for our goods to no market , if it was a business and it was able to incur a little debt but set itself up to recover you'd be praising the manager as very competant ... the only reason you b1tch is because it's labor ........

ive managed businesses for decades. I have borrow money in slumps too so I know what it means. the difference is I only borrowed what i needed and demanded a proper return fot he money AND I had pans to pay it off. Sound familiar? no it doesnt. labor never repays its debts or even seeks value for money. it only wants to SPEND.

leave the political speak out if you ever hope to be taken seriously ... of course they had plans to pay it back ... if you borrowed to help you get through slumps and then your projected turnover for the next period doesn't eventuate, are you able to pay of the loans? or do you shut your doors and cry broke?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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john_g

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #115 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:46pm

It is scheduled to transition to a market mechanism in 2015 - well after the next election.

At the moment it is a tax, and Labor promised to not introduce it.

A swing voter can see it from both sides.

Why the hell would anyone give their undying support to either side?

I take each election on its merits, and neither party will ever get my vote without deserving it.

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #116 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:51pm

john_g wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

It is scheduled to transition to a market mechanism in 2015 - well after the next election.

At the moment it is a tax, and Labor promised to not introduce it.

A swing voter can see it from both sides.

Why the hell would anyone give their undying support to either side?

I take each election on its merits, and neither party will ever get my vote without deserving it.

Oh FFS its closer to a fine than a tax.

Anyway stop trying to divert, prove the economy is tanking due to it by refuting the facts set out in the OP or admit you really just don't like Gillard, couldn't give a toss about the country & want Abbott as PM.

A little bit of honesty would go a long way Angry

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #117 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:51pm

john_g wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

It is scheduled to transition to a market mechanism in 2015 - well after the next election.

At the moment it is a tax, and Labor promised to not introduce it.

A swing voter can see it from both sides.

Why the hell would anyone give their undying support to either side?

I take each election on its merits, and neither party will ever get my vote without deserving it.

Aha, sure. Tony deserves your vote? Grin

It is a tax only by name. That's all there is to it.

DO you or DO YOU NOT agree with the stats in the OP?

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john_g

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #118 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 5:00pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:51pm:

john_g wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

It is scheduled to transition to a market mechanism in 2015 - well after the next election.

At the moment it is a tax, and Labor promised to not introduce it.

A swing voter can see it from both sides.

Why the hell would anyone give their undying support to either side?

I take each election on its merits, and neither party will ever get my vote without deserving it.

Aha, sure. Tony deserves your vote? Grin

It is a tax only by name. That's all there is to it.

DO you or DO YOU NOT agree with the stats in the OP?

As I have said, I am most likely going to be votimg informally.

That is not all there is to it, it effectively is a tax now, scheduled to transition in 2015.

I already answered that - by and large, I completely agree that Abbott has lied about the effects, but it's too hypocritical coming from someone from Labor.

Abbott and Gillard both take the electorate for mugs, IMO. I see Abbott as the lesser of two evils.

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john_g

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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #119 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 5:01pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:51pm:

john_g wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 4:46pm:

It is scheduled to transition to a market mechanism in 2015 - well after the next election.

At the moment it is a tax, and Labor promised to not introduce it.

A swing voter can see it from both sides.

Why the hell would anyone give their undying support to either side?

I take each election on its merits, and neither party will ever get my vote without deserving it.

Oh FFS its closer to a fine than a tax.

Anyway stop trying to divert, prove the economy is tanking due to it by refuting the facts set out in the OP or admit you really just don't like Gillard, couldn't give a toss about the country & want Abbott as PM.

A little bit of honesty would go a long way Angry

I already said I agreed with the OP.

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