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Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility (Read 16777 times)
john_g
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #60 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:34am
 
Such hypocrisy from both sides.  Roll Eyes
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #61 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:36am
 
john_g wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:34am:
Such hypocrisy from both sides.  Roll Eyes


Oh? How so? More of your "swinging" position?
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MOTR
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #62 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:38am
 
How about debating Abbott's complete misreading of our economy. He's clearly an economic innumerate. But don't take my word for it. Those closest to him say exactly the same thing.

His former colleagues are on the record saying “he has no interest in economics – he has no feeling for it”, he is “innumerate” and that his future “was not in economics”.


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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."
 
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john_g
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #63 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:41am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:36am:
john_g wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:34am:
Such hypocrisy from both sides.  Roll Eyes


Oh? How so? More of your "swinging" position?


Isn't it obvious?

Labor supporters take issue with Abbott telling porkies about the carbon tax, but no problem with Labor's lie in the first place, and the reverse for Coalition supportees.

I suppose it is more of my swingimg position, I am smart enough to not blindly support any one party.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #64 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:49am
 
john_g wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:41am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:36am:
john_g wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:34am:
Such hypocrisy from both sides.  Roll Eyes


Oh? How so? More of your "swinging" position?


Isn't it obvious?

Labor supporters take issue with Abbott telling porkies about the carbon tax, but no problem with Labor's lie in the first place, and the reverse for Coalition supportees.

I suppose it is more of my swingimg position, I am smart enough to not blindly support any one party.


There's no problem with Labor's lie because some of us actually have the smarts to recognise it is nothign more than a lack of political gamesmanship from Gillard by calling her pricing mechanism a "carbon tax".  So to you, my friend, I say you aren't really smart at all.
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #65 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:50am
 
And the reason Labor are about to be smashed in a landslide by the Australian people is because........

Smiley
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Doctor Jolly
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #66 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:58am
 
Howard reduced debt by selling off assets

How is that considered good economic management ?


Sure, I could remove my debt by selling my house, but I value having a house over having debt so I dont.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #67 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:59am
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:50am:
And the reason Labor are about to be smashed in a landslide by the Australian people is because........

Smiley


Of their lack of political gamesmanship, dill.  It's already been mentioned to you.

Want to also try to DISPUTE the stats in the OP? You're an "economist"...at least a try hard one. Go on, tell us.

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Doctor Jolly
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #68 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 12:01pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:50am:
And the reason Labor are about to be smashed in a landslide by the Australian people is because........

Smiley


I think you rightards claimed that last time.

No one has "been smashed in a landslide" until it has actually happened.

Based on Tony's first policy release, the fraudband, I wouldnt be banking on him unless there is significant improvement.  ... And remember he still has that lemon "direct action" to release yet.
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #69 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 12:05pm
 
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:50am:
And the reason Labor are about to be smashed in a landslide by the Australian people is because........

Smiley



People want to return to the boom times.

They want to be told by real estate agents their property has risen in value 10 grand over the last 6 months which will be immediately redrawn.
They love getting those letters from the bank that tells them they are "Pre Approved" to increase the credit card limit.

They are simple enough to think voting the party fortunate enough to be in government during those golden times back in will achieve this.
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longweekend58
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #70 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 1:21pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:26am:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 10:55am:
Longie, are you referring to this blog?

Quote:
It seems that a day doesn’t go by without someone from the Coalition side of politics recounting the fact that the Howard Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”.

There is no denying the fact that net debt was $96 billion in 1995-96 and it was eliminated in 2007-08, the year that the Howard Government lost office.

It is useful and enlightening to look at some other facts behind that $96 billion level of debt “inherited” by the Howard Government, given that there is an implication that all of the $96 billion was racked-up under the Hawke and Keating Governments between 1983-84 and 1995-96.

Something that you never hear, until now, is the fact that almost half of the $96 billion of debt was sourced from the Fraser Government, which in its last few years had Mr Howard as Treasurer.

When John Howard was Treasurer, net Government debt rose at a steady pace, hitting 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost the 1983 election.  In 1996 dollar terms, 7.5% of GDP is around $40 billion which is in fact the real level of net government debt “inherited” by the Hawke Government when it won the 1983 election.

Recall, by way of context, the fact that the Fraser Government “inherited” zero net government debt from the Whitlam Government in 1975-76, so all of the build up in government debt in the Fraser years was self imposed by the Coalition, its policies and the business cycle.

Coming back to the issue of the $96 billion net debt inherited by the Howard Government in 1996, it’s a fact that 42% of it was bequeathed from the Fraser Government and left for Labor to deal with during its term of government.

So next time you hear someone from the Coalition or elsewhere for that matter banging on about the $96 billion of Labor Government debt that was paid off by the Howard Government, remind them of the fact that $40 billion of it or almost half was a hangover of the debt left to Labor by the Fraser Government in 1983.


that looks like the one. it is blatantly biased and chooses to redefine debt conveniently to support a political ideology. The actual and indisputable facts is that Fraser left $9B in debt.

This is an example of the writers blatant and significant bias and why the OP is so discredited. now if it were written by someone with a record for balance and non-partisan writing then perahsp it woudl be worthy of discussion. But you refuse to debate a Bolt article so it is the same thing here.


He did, in 1983.  The blog talks about real terms in 1996, which is comparing the 96 Billion in 1996.


no the blog doesnt use 'real' terms. real terms would be the CPI increase making it $19B - still not $40B. he uses a convenient GDP argument which he would use if the argument went the other way - the sure sign of an invalid argument.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #71 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 1:28pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 1:21pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:26am:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 10:55am:
Longie, are you referring to this blog?

Quote:
It seems that a day doesn’t go by without someone from the Coalition side of politics recounting the fact that the Howard Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”.

There is no denying the fact that net debt was $96 billion in 1995-96 and it was eliminated in 2007-08, the year that the Howard Government lost office.

It is useful and enlightening to look at some other facts behind that $96 billion level of debt “inherited” by the Howard Government, given that there is an implication that all of the $96 billion was racked-up under the Hawke and Keating Governments between 1983-84 and 1995-96.

Something that you never hear, until now, is the fact that almost half of the $96 billion of debt was sourced from the Fraser Government, which in its last few years had Mr Howard as Treasurer.

When John Howard was Treasurer, net Government debt rose at a steady pace, hitting 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost the 1983 election.  In 1996 dollar terms, 7.5% of GDP is around $40 billion which is in fact the real level of net government debt “inherited” by the Hawke Government when it won the 1983 election.

Recall, by way of context, the fact that the Fraser Government “inherited” zero net government debt from the Whitlam Government in 1975-76, so all of the build up in government debt in the Fraser years was self imposed by the Coalition, its policies and the business cycle.

Coming back to the issue of the $96 billion net debt inherited by the Howard Government in 1996, it’s a fact that 42% of it was bequeathed from the Fraser Government and left for Labor to deal with during its term of government.

So next time you hear someone from the Coalition or elsewhere for that matter banging on about the $96 billion of Labor Government debt that was paid off by the Howard Government, remind them of the fact that $40 billion of it or almost half was a hangover of the debt left to Labor by the Fraser Government in 1983.


that looks like the one. it is blatantly biased and chooses to redefine debt conveniently to support a political ideology. The actual and indisputable facts is that Fraser left $9B in debt.

This is an example of the writers blatant and significant bias and why the OP is so discredited. now if it were written by someone with a record for balance and non-partisan writing then perahsp it woudl be worthy of discussion. But you refuse to debate a Bolt article so it is the same thing here.


He did, in 1983.  The blog talks about real terms in 1996, which is comparing the 96 Billion in 1996.


no the blog doesnt use 'real' terms. real terms would be the CPI increase making it $19B - still not $40B. he uses a convenient GDP argument which he would use if the argument went the other way - the sure sign of an invalid argument.


His argument is that $40B of the debt can very well be attributed to the state of the economy left by Fraser in 1983, with a $9B debt.  One could argue that Keating and Hawke had to take on the extra debt in order to fix up the stuff ups of the Howard treasury.  And look at the outcome in GDP growth as a result. But had Howard been a better treasurer, would we really have needed to take on that $40B worth of debt in the first place? Who knows, I'm not a story teller, all I can say is that his argument makes sense and doesn't say that Fraser left $40B, it's saying that 7.5% of GDp in debt in 1996 is the direct result of Howard's inadequacies as treasurer in 1983.
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longweekend58
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #72 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 2:16pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 1:28pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 1:21pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:26am:
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:24am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 10:55am:
Longie, are you referring to this blog?

Quote:
It seems that a day doesn’t go by without someone from the Coalition side of politics recounting the fact that the Howard Government inherited $96 billion of net Government debt when it won the 1996 election and that over the course of the next decade, it “paid it off”.

There is no denying the fact that net debt was $96 billion in 1995-96 and it was eliminated in 2007-08, the year that the Howard Government lost office.

It is useful and enlightening to look at some other facts behind that $96 billion level of debt “inherited” by the Howard Government, given that there is an implication that all of the $96 billion was racked-up under the Hawke and Keating Governments between 1983-84 and 1995-96.

Something that you never hear, until now, is the fact that almost half of the $96 billion of debt was sourced from the Fraser Government, which in its last few years had Mr Howard as Treasurer.

When John Howard was Treasurer, net Government debt rose at a steady pace, hitting 7.5% of GDP when Fraser lost the 1983 election.  In 1996 dollar terms, 7.5% of GDP is around $40 billion which is in fact the real level of net government debt “inherited” by the Hawke Government when it won the 1983 election.

Recall, by way of context, the fact that the Fraser Government “inherited” zero net government debt from the Whitlam Government in 1975-76, so all of the build up in government debt in the Fraser years was self imposed by the Coalition, its policies and the business cycle.

Coming back to the issue of the $96 billion net debt inherited by the Howard Government in 1996, it’s a fact that 42% of it was bequeathed from the Fraser Government and left for Labor to deal with during its term of government.

So next time you hear someone from the Coalition or elsewhere for that matter banging on about the $96 billion of Labor Government debt that was paid off by the Howard Government, remind them of the fact that $40 billion of it or almost half was a hangover of the debt left to Labor by the Fraser Government in 1983.


that looks like the one. it is blatantly biased and chooses to redefine debt conveniently to support a political ideology. The actual and indisputable facts is that Fraser left $9B in debt.

This is an example of the writers blatant and significant bias and why the OP is so discredited. now if it were written by someone with a record for balance and non-partisan writing then perahsp it woudl be worthy of discussion. But you refuse to debate a Bolt article so it is the same thing here.


He did, in 1983.  The blog talks about real terms in 1996, which is comparing the 96 Billion in 1996.


no the blog doesnt use 'real' terms. real terms would be the CPI increase making it $19B - still not $40B. he uses a convenient GDP argument which he would use if the argument went the other way - the sure sign of an invalid argument.


His argument is that $40B of the debt can very well be attributed to the state of the economy left by Fraser in 1983, with a $9B debt.  One could argue that Keating and Hawke had to take on the extra debt in order to fix up the stuff ups of the Howard treasury.  And look at the outcome in GDP growth as a result. But had Howard been a better treasurer, would we really have needed to take on that $40B worth of debt in the first place? Who knows, I'm not a story teller, all I can say is that his argument makes sense and doesn't say that Fraser left $40B, it's saying that 7.5% of GDp in debt in 1996 is the direct result of Howard's inadequacies as treasurer in 1983.


its a bogus argument that is used in this manner because it suits a purpose. of course the fact the the worst post war global recession was in 82/83 is ignored just as is the fact that it followed on frmo a decade of global economic stagnation. all that context is conveniently ignored and suddenly $9B becaomes $40B.  pure nonsens.
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john_g
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #73 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 2:17pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:49am:
john_g wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:41am:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:36am:
john_g wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 11:34am:
Such hypocrisy from both sides.  Roll Eyes


Oh? How so? More of your "swinging" position?


Isn't it obvious?

Labor supporters take issue with Abbott telling porkies about the carbon tax, but no problem with Labor's lie in the first place, and the reverse for Coalition supportees.

I suppose it is more of my swingimg position, I am smart enough to not blindly support any one party.


There's no problem with Labor's lie because some of us actually have the smarts to recognise it is nothign more than a lack of political gamesmanship from Gillard by calling her pricing mechanism a "carbon tax".  So to you, my friend, I say you aren't really smart at all. 


She said no carbon tax, then introduced one.

It's as simple as that.

Tony wouldn't be getting away with his porkies if people weren't so desperate to get rid of Labor.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: Tony's wrecking ball takes out his own credibility
Reply #74 - Apr 12th, 2013 at 2:21pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Apr 12th, 2013 at 2:16pm:
of course the fact the the worst post war global recession was in 82/83 is ignored just as is the fact that it followed on frmo a decade of global economic stagnation. all that context is conveniently ignored and suddenly $9B becaomes $40B.  pure nonsens.



I might give that some credence if you hadn't been ignoring the biggest global collapse since the great depression for the last 6 years.

Cake & eating  again
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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