Australian Politics Forum - Eradicating dualism

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Eradicating dualism
Apr 11^th, 2013 at 11:47am

Let me know what you think of this argument.

Philosophy, and all modern thinking, is divided into subject and object: Dualism.

The subject thinks and acts and this thinking and acting is an object. For example, "The man washes the car." The man = subject; washes the car = object. Or, "The man thinks he's good." The man = subject; thinks he's good = object.

Eradicating dualism is a grammatical issue. Erase the subject from language and only speak of objects, or more precisely, predicates, then the boundary line between man and the world disappears. The subject, if we could ever speak of one, is always in the predicate. Everything, then, becomes "action" or "doing". Language, then, would have to be reformed so nouns and adjectives are eradicated, and verbs and adverbs become dominant.

Back to top

IP Logged

Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 21583 A cat with a view	Re: Eradicating dualism Reply #1 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 12:56pm 'You', are the observer. [i.e. right now, you are 'looking outward', observing the 'world'] i.e. You are, [your own] consciousness ? So, isn't everything 'outside' of the observer, subjective ? [i.e. merely being observed.] IMO, it is all an elaborate illusion. [i.e. what we observe.] Does that make any sense ?
Back to top	"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:31 IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: Eradicating dualism Reply #2 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:04pm It makes sense. Doesn't Christianity teach to "live according to the spirit and not the flesh" (somewhere in Romans)? Isn't this Christianity's attempt to eradicate dualism?
Back to top	IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21583
A cat with a view

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #3 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:11pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 12:56pm:

IMO, it is all an elaborate illusion. [i.e. what we observe.]

Even though i am sure that it is all, just an elaborate illusion, i choose to flow with it, and i choose to interact with it.    ['it', being the reality, the illusion, which i do perceive]

Because i believe that that, is my purpose in being here.

It is intended [by our 'source'/creator] that we should 'interact' with this illusion.    [....i believe]

[And our choices are being recorded.]    [....i believe    Wink

]

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21583
A cat with a view

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #4 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:04pm:

It makes sense.

Doesn't Christianity teach to "live according to the spirit and not the flesh" (somewhere in Romans)? Isn't this Christianity's attempt to eradicate dualism?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Jesus said.....

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #5 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:18pm

In fact, we could probably reduce all religions and meditation practices to this one fundamental problem. Don't they all attempt to collapse the distinction between the subject and object? Christianity - salvation, Buddhism - nirvana etc? Isn't Christianity the attempt to become united with god, thus collapsing the distinction between man's ego and god's will?

Romanticism was the last philosophy that attempted to eradicate the separation. What is remarkable about Romanticism is that it attempted to do it secularly and with any meditation or ascetic practices.

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #6 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:18pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:04pm:

It makes sense.

Doesn't Christianity teach to "live according to the spirit and not the flesh" (somewhere in Romans)? Isn't this Christianity's attempt to eradicate dualism?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Jesus said.....

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I thought you'd be on the ball with that one. Well done.

Back to top

IP Logged

Yadda

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 21583
A cat with a view

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #7 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:21pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:04pm:

It makes sense.

Doesn't Christianity teach to "live according to the spirit and not the flesh" (somewhere in Romans)? Isn't this Christianity's attempt to eradicate dualism?

That Billy Joel song;

"We're only human. We're supposed to make mistakes."

It is true, imo.

I believe that if we recognise our error [in our heart], then God will for give us, our mistakes.

But most of mankind refuses to come to, 'that place'.
i.e.
"I've made a lot of mistakes. Sorry."

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Back to top

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

IP Logged

Alinta

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1470
Melbourne
Gender: female

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #8 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:24pm

Yadda wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 12:56pm:

'You', are the observer.    [i.e. right now, you are 'looking outward', observing the 'world']

i.e. You are, [your own] consciousness ?

So, isn't everything 'outside' of the observer, subjective ? [i.e. merely being observed.]

IMO, it is all an elaborate illusion.    [i.e. what we observe.]

Does that make any sense ?       Grin

How might the Butterfly Dream resonate in this topic????

Back to top

IP Logged

progressiveslol

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17029

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #9 - Apr 11^th, 2013 at 11:07pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:18pm:

Yadda wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:15pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:04pm:

It makes sense.

Doesn't Christianity teach to "live according to the spirit and not the flesh" (somewhere in Romans)? Isn't this Christianity's attempt to eradicate dualism?

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Jesus said.....

John 6:63
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

I thought you'd be on the ball with that one. Well done.

What are you going to do with the word you just used. I.

Maybe you could give an example.

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir Spot of Borg

Gold Member

Offline

WE ARE BORG

Posts: 26499
Australia

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #10 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 5:11am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 11:47am:

Let me know what you think of this argument.

Philosophy, and all modern thinking, is divided into subject and object: Dualism.

The subject thinks and acts and this thinking and acting is an object. For example, "The man washes the car." The man = subject; washes the car = object. Or, "The man thinks he's good." The man = subject; thinks he's good = object.

Eradicating dualism is a grammatical issue. Erase the subject from language and only speak of objects, or more precisely, predicates, then the boundary line between man and the world disappears. The subject, if we could ever speak of one, is always in the predicate. Everything, then, becomes "action" or "doing". Language, then, would have to be reformed so nouns and adjectives are eradicated, and verbs and adverbs become dominant.

Why would you want to eradicate dualism?

SOB

Back to top

Whaaaaaah!
I'm a
Moron!

- edited by some unethical admin - you think its funny? - its a slippery slope

IP Logged

NorthOfNorth

Gold Member

Offline

OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #11 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 6:18am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:18pm:

In fact, we could probably reduce all religions and meditation practices to this one fundamental problem. Don't they all attempt to collapse the distinction between the subject and object? Christianity - salvation, Buddhism - nirvana etc? Isn't Christianity the attempt to become united with god, thus collapsing the distinction between man's ego and god's will?

Romanticism was the last philosophy that attempted to eradicate the separation. What is remarkable about Romanticism is that it attempted to do it secularly and with any meditation or ascetic practices.

Are you referring to experiencing the 'oceanic feeling'?

Back to top

Conviction is the art of being certain

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10259 Gender:	Re: Eradicating dualism Reply #12 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:42am Alinta wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:24pm: How might the Butterfly Dream resonate in this topic???? It could work. Could you expand on it, maybe?
Back to top	IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #13 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 9:46am

progressiveslol wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 11:07pm:

What are you going to do with the word you just used. I.

Maybe you could give an example.

To be honest, I don't have any examples. It was just an idea or a thought experiment. To remove the subject, nouns, and adjectives from grammar would be a job that would take a few centuries, which includes a complete re-write of grammatical rules.

Given that we think in words, our thinking would change as the meaning of the words change.

Back to top

IP Logged

Postmodern Trendoid III

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 10259
Gender: male

Re: Eradicating dualism
Reply #14 - Apr 12^th, 2013 at 10:03am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 12^th, 2013 at 6:18am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 11^th, 2013 at 1:18pm:

In fact, we could probably reduce all religions and meditation practices to this one fundamental problem. Don't they all attempt to collapse the distinction between the subject and object? Christianity - salvation, Buddhism - nirvana etc? Isn't Christianity the attempt to become united with god, thus collapsing the distinction between man's ego and god's will?

Romanticism was the last philosophy that attempted to eradicate the separation. What is remarkable about Romanticism is that it attempted to do it secularly and with any meditation or ascetic practices.

Are you referring to experiencing the 'oceanic feeling'?

Yes, that is one aspect of it. There is also the attempt by philosophers (which is related to the oceanic feeling) of embodying pure or complete knowledge of the world, thus eradicating the distinction between the doubting mind and knowledge itself. This is what Plato was trying to achieve with the theory of forms. If we could intuitively grasp the forms we would be.

Back to top

IP Logged