Australian Politics Forum - The academics who hate free speech

Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #30 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:24am

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 9:38pm:

Quote:

This particular corflute pictured then-Prime Minister John Howard and his quote “we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come.” On one particular day of O-Week, The Club displayed this corflute proudly at our stall

My opinion on this is that "context" is very important.

We all know the context in which John Howard said this quote. It was during the Tampa stand off, which at the time was front page news.

On the other hand we have a group of conservative students with this placard in the midst of a ethnically and culturally diverse university campus. In this context it could easily be seen to be potentially racist.

As much as the right like to play the victim I don't think this was a case of left v right. This was just a case of academics defusing a potentially dangerous situation. Which they have every right to do.

It could have prompted robust debate. Deciding who comes into the country and under what circumstances is a legitimate topic for discussion.

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #31 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:34am

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 12:14pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:40am:

Kat wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

cods wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

we all know what happened in the British Universities during the 20s and 30s..shame MI5 didnt...

And what the f-ck has THAT got to do with this topic?

Well, they were apparently hotbeds (pun unintended) of homosexuality and
Communism, and produced some of Britain's most famous traitors.

Perhaps Cods believes our unis are the same.... Wink

I am not sure you'd call it today a hotbed of homosexuality, but there are gays and lesbians throughout the Humanities and Social Sciences. There's a whole sub-discipline of literature devoted to them. Often it takes the form of pointing out the plainness of the "heteronormative" world, and that gays and lesbians are "different" and hold the key to "diversifying" this "boring" world.

I think that's what you call freedom of speech.....

Yes, but what do you call the suppression of opposing ideas?

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In the fullness of time...

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #32 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:08am I am not even sure you could call academic journals free speech considering that the subject matter is peer-reviewed. A panel of "experts" decide what is deemed worthy of being published.
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #33 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:39am

longweekend58 wrote on Apr 16^th, 2013 at 11:42pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 16^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

It is interesting this attempt to silence came from academics and not students.

The academics however never leave, never work in the real world and thus stay entrenched in their left-wing world where 'free speech' is a concept that applies the them but not everyone else.

Most academics devote their lives to contributing to their field of expertise. Living in a country such as ours, you benefit from the hard work of academics every day - whatever their political persuasion.

One of the first concepts that university students learn is critical thinking and they are encouraged to question everything. In every tutorial I have attended, there have been opposing viewpoints.

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #34 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:43am

Mnemonic wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 12:59am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 16^th, 2013 at 11:14pm:

It is interesting this attempt to silence came from academics and not students.

Universities are supposed to be places of learning. Having said that, something like "we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come" is open to interpretation and its meaning is debatable.

I think the academics' response was one of fear, that by allowing the club to show their items to the people on the campus, they were effectively agreeing with what had been written on them. That just isn't my interpretation. Universities being places of learning and evolution of ideas, allowing such items to exist on campus didn't mean you were condoning, supporting or advocating them. You could just walk past and ignore them, showing no interest.

I don't think the reaction was based on fear. It was probably motivated by the need to promote an environment where students feel safe which is vital for learning.

"We will decide who comes into our country." Such a stupid, unnecessary statement - particularly in an educational setting. "We" do decide already.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #35 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:46am Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:21am: Howard's slogan was pure dog whistle, but the MULC had a right to display it. They should have stood their ground. And the academics had a right to object and complain, which is what they did.
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #36 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:50am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:08am:

I am not even sure you could call academic journals free speech considering that the subject matter is peer-reviewed. A panel of "experts" decide what is deemed worthy of being published.

Do you have a better way of filtering the masses of articles that are submitted for publication? Should journals just be a free for all that include studies with unreliable and invalid results?

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #37 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:56am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:50am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:08am:

I am not even sure you could call academic journals free speech considering that the subject matter is peer-reviewed. A panel of "experts" decide what is deemed worthy of being published.

Do you have a better way of filtering the masses of articles that are submitted for publication? Should journals just be a free for all that include studies with unreliable and invalid results?

In the context of what I was replying to - Freedman's claim of free speech - academic journals don't come under that criteria. So, no, I don't believe journals should be a free for all.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #38 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:58am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:21am:

Howard's slogan was pure dog whistle, but the MULC had a right to display it. They should have stood their ground.

And the academics had a right to object and complain, which is what they did.

Would it be acceptable to eject other political groups with offensive slogans?

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #39 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:16am

Although there was an attempt at an eviction, it failed. Ultimately, the MULC students chose to leave of their own accord. For what it's worth, I don't support what the security staff did, but they are at fault - not the academics.

You are involved in academia, I believe. Have you ever felt silenced with regards to your beliefs or pressure to conform?

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #40 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech. If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism. Please explain.
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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #41 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:28am What a conundrum for new Australians then.
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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #42 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:35am

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:16am:

Although there was an attempt at an eviction, it failed. Ultimately, the MULC students chose to leave of their own accord. For what it's worth, I don't support what the security staff did, but they are at fault - not the academics.

You are involved in academia, I believe. Have you ever felt silenced with regards to your beliefs or pressure to conform?

Many times. Lost count.

The place isn't a bastion of free speech. It's a hotbed of political ideas vying for power.

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #43 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:58am

Okay. That shouldn't have happened. My experience has been different, but my studies have been far shorter than yours - though probably broader.

I remember an essay I had to write where I asked to argue in opposition to what we had been taught in the course. The convenor said that was fine as long as I could support my argument with strong evidence. I got a HD, so was in no way penalised for not adhering to the accepted line of thought.

I am not arguing that the social sciences are not strongly geared to the left - I agree that they are. But the very nature of university study is primarily independent - students must seek knowledge beyond what is given in lectures, tutes and course readings for every assignment.

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Soren

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #44 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:59pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:58am:

Okay. That shouldn't have happened. My experience has been different, but my studies have been far shorter than yours - though probably broader.

I remember an essay I had to write where I asked to argue in opposition to what we had been taught in the course. The convenor said that was fine as long as I could support my argument with strong evidence. I got a HD, so was in no way penalised for not adhering to the accepted line of thought.

I am not arguing that the social sciences are not strongly geared to the left - I agree that they are. But the very nature of university study is primarily independent - students must seek knowledge beyond what is given in lectures, tutes and course readings for every assignment.

This is right as far as it goes.
There is no questioning, let alone opposition to multiculturalism, to cultural relativism, to post-modern relativising of all sorts. Not because there are no publications and books opposing these intellectual currents but because such books and journals are not on any of the university reading lists.

Your example is subtly telling: you were taught a certain line and were expressly asked to argue against the entire outlook of the semester's material.

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