Australian Politics Forum - The academics who hate free speech

... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #45 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:55pm Quote: One of the first concepts that university students learn is critical thinking and they are encouraged to question everything. heh.
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Annie Anthrax

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #46 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 7:34pm

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:59pm:

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:58am:

Okay. That shouldn't have happened. My experience has been different, but my studies have been far shorter than yours - though probably broader.

I remember an essay I had to write where I asked to argue in opposition to what we had been taught in the course. The convenor said that was fine as long as I could support my argument with strong evidence. I got a HD, so was in no way penalised for not adhering to the accepted line of thought.

I am not arguing that the social sciences are not strongly geared to the left - I agree that they are. But the very nature of university study is primarily independent - students must seek knowledge beyond what is given in lectures, tutes and course readings for every assignment.

This is right as far as it goes.
There is no questioning, let alone opposition to multiculturalism, to cultural relativism, to post-modern relativising of all sorts. Not because there are no publications and books opposing these intellectual currents but because such books and journals are not on any of the university reading lists.

When I was studying arts, all of these things were introduced in some way and they were open to discussion. An example that springs immediately to mind is Seasons of Migration to the North by Salih. I'm not sure if you've read it, but it's nothing if not a slam on multiculturalism and the difficulties of assimilation.

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:59pm:

Your example is subtly telling: you were taught a certain line and were expressly asked to argue against the entire outlook of the semester's material.

No. t was me that asked. It was an essay on the manner in which Lurie in Coetzee's post-aparthieid novel Disgrace had found redemption. I didn't (and don't) believe he had so I asked to argue that instead. My convenor was surprised, but made no attempt to change my mind and marked me fairly.

My point is, it is the responsibility of students to research thoroughly. This includes finding information, making sense of it and refuting it with evidence if they don't agree with it.

I'm studying psych now and it's a completely different teaching/learning style. That's why I made the distinction about humanities before. I can't think of a single thing that I've learnt in my psychology studies that has been geared toward either political direction.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #47 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:19pm I am very, very glad of your forthright defence of the breadth and independence of your studies. You have my best wishes.
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Peter Freedman

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #48 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:19pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:46am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:21am:

Howard's slogan was pure dog whistle, but the MULC had a right to display it. They should have stood their ground.

And the academics had a right to object and complain, which is what they did.

Yep, quite agree. And the students had the to tell them, very respectfully to f- off.

Rather than stand their ground, they slunk off. Gutless wonders.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #49 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:25pm Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:19pm: I am very, very glad of your forthright defence of the breadth and independence of your studies. You have my best wishes. Did I sound like a wanker? Didn't mean to. Just trying to make my point.
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Soren

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #50 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:28pm

Annie Anthrax wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:25pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:

I am very, very glad of your forthright defence of the breadth and independence of your studies.
You have my best wishes.

Did I sound like a wanker? Didn't mean to. Just trying to make my point.

Don't be such a neurotic lefty. I meant what I said. I am not a POMO relativiser like Karnal. I am really glad. I really do wish you well.

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Annie Anthrax Gold Member Offline Take the plan, spin it sideways Posts: 7057 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #51 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:35pm Oh. Then thank you. I appreciate it.
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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #52 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:49pm Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am: If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech. If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism. Please explain. I want answers.
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Yadda

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #53 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:01pm

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I want answers.

Frank, forthright, guileless, answers ?

"Tell him; He's dreaming."

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #54 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:47pm

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I assume that you define

Ethnics: English, Scottish, Irish, Spanish. Italan, Chinese, Russian, Greek, Chilean etc

Australian: Indigenous peoples of this land who have occupied this land for over 50,000 years

(which kind of makes your statement impotent and utterly ridiculous)

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... Gold Member Offline Posts: 23673 WA Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #55 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:49pm It makes your assumption utterly ridiculous.
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Soren

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #56 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 10:57pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:47pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I assume that you define

Ethnics: English, Scottish, Irish, Spanish. Italan, Chinese, Russian, Greek, Chilean etc

Australian: Indigenous peoples of this land who have occupied this land for over 50,000 years

(which kind of makes your statement impotent and utterly ridiculous)

I assume that you are godawful fvcken moron.

Am I wrong?

No.

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Karnal

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #57 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:15am

Chimp_Logic wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:47pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I assume that you define

Ethnics: English, Scottish, Irish, Spanish. Italan, Chinese, Russian, Greek, Chilean etc

Australian: Indigenous peoples of this land who have occupied this land for over 50,000 years

(which kind of makes your statement impotent and utterly ridiculous)

You left out cheese-fanciers, of which the old boy is one. These people come to this country, send their kids off to school with pickles and rollmops, dance around their inscrutable pagan maypoles in their silly trousers, and pretend to be normal.

Meanwhile, they spy on you putting your bins out, measure your parking from the kerb, and set their sprinklers to start up just when you walk past.

I’m not racist - some of my best friends are cheese-dealers - but I do find them to be frightful bores.

Still, I really do wish them well.

Don’t you?

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Grey

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #58 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:37am

Kat wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 10:17am:

Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

cods wrote on Apr 17^th, 2013 at 9:41am:

we all know what happened in the British Universities during the 20s and 30s..shame MI5 didnt...

And what the f-ck has THAT got to do with this topic?

Well, they were apparently hotbeds (pun unintended) of homosexuality and
Communism, and produced some of Britain's most famous traitors.

Perhaps Cods believes our unis are the same.... Wink

Actually in the 20's and 30's they were hotbeds of nazism. Certainly there were some communists who went on to be traitors but don't get fooled into believing they were in the majority.

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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb

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Karnal

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #59 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 1:13am

Nothing wrong with hotbeds of Nazis, Grey. Just between you and me, some of our best friends here are collaborators.

Live and let live, I say. Viva la differance. Me, I’m a pragmatist.

We do what we have to do to survive. Or complain about other’s surviving. Or shafting the one on the rung below to feel more secure - or just because you can, or just because it feels right.

It’s a rich tapestry of human life. Innit.

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