Australian Politics Forum - The academics who hate free speech

Mnemonic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1530 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #60 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 2:25am Peter Freedman wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:19pm: Yep, quite agree. And the students had the to tell them, very respectfully to f- off. Rather than stand their ground, they slunk off. Gutless wonders. I invite them to go back and do it again, regardless of whether I agree with their views.
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The_Barnacle

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #61 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I want answers.

Well Soren, when I see the crap posted by the Right I have the opposite dilemma

attack the rights of ethnics, minority groups = freedom of speech

defend these peoples rights = unaustralian terrorist supporter

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #62 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:34am

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I want answers.

Well Soren, when I see the crap posted by the Right I have the opposite dilemma

attack the rights of ethnics, minority groups = freedom of speech

defend these peoples rights = unaustralian terrorist supporter

I think the confusion stems from a failure to distinguish "rights" from 'wants".

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In the fullness of time...

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #63 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:50am

... wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:34am:

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I want answers.

Well Soren, when I see the crap posted by the Right I have the opposite dilemma

attack the rights of ethnics, minority groups = freedom of speech

defend these peoples rights = unaustralian terrorist supporter

I think the confusion stems from a failure to distinguish "rights" from 'wants".

No it doesn't. We have a thread by sprintcyclist advocating sterilisation of people who haven't learned "Australian" (sic) within 2 years of arriving here. We have other thread calling for the banning of people who adhere to a particular religion, attacks on people who happen to have relationships with a consenting adult of the same sex.

The right wing whines about "freedom of speech" (when it suits their agenda) but they are the worst suppressors of it.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #64 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:53am

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:50am:

... wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:34am:

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:33am:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Soren wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

If efnics express opposition to anything Australian = freedom of speech.
If Australians express opposition to anything efnic = racism.

Please explain.

I want answers.

Well Soren, when I see the crap posted by the Right I have the opposite dilemma

attack the rights of ethnics, minority groups = freedom of speech

defend these peoples rights = unaustralian terrorist supporter

I think the confusion stems from a failure to distinguish "rights" from 'wants".

No it doesn't. We have a thread by sprintcyclist advocating sterilisation of people who haven't learned "Australian" (sic) within 2 years of arriving here. We have other thread calling for the banning of people who adhere to a particular religion, attacks on people who happen to have relationships with a consenting adult of the same sex.

The right wing whines about "freedom of speech" (when it suits their agenda) but they are the worst suppressors of it.

See? People don't have a "right" to move anywhere they please - that is what's known as a "want."

I'm curious to know what form these "attacks" on homos take? I assume you mean that they can't be legally married - well again, there is no "right" to usurp traditions for your own ends. Again, it is a want.

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In the fullness of time...

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JC Denton

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #65 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:02pm

yeah of course the 'right' doesnt care about freedom of speech or at least freedom of expression

look at the mental gymnastics/contortions they get into to justify their desire to ban burqas for example while reconciling this with an attempt to sound coherent/consistent with their enlightenment bullcrap

the mainstream right is in a very peculiar position as they've dug themselves into a hole where they must endlessly repeat to themselves and everybody else that 'individualism', support for free markets and adherence to the enlightenment values isthe yardstick by which one is considered a conservative, which is really weird when you think about it

its the same when you have u.k jewish neocons like dennis mcshane saying they want to restrict islamic immigration and 'islamofascism' because they stand with the founders of the enlightnment on the one hand, but on the other hand heading up committees/drives to illegalise the mere downloading and reading of anti-semitic and racially inflammatory content online

it's all part of a very pitiful race to the bottom with the left (who are guilty of the same tactics), where both political sides attempt to appear more supportive of to prevailing intellectual orthdoxy of the day which enshrines 'free speech' and 'free expression' while supporting hosts upon hosts of policies which essentially violate the very essence of these principles, because nobody is honest enough to just want to come out and say that sometimes 'freedom' might suck.

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #66 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:06pm but yeah oh_yeah do you actually have any evidence that any of the 'right' members here want to ban homosexuality? attacking/criticising it, whatever the merit does not equal wanting to restrict the rights of homosexuals now is it?
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The_Barnacle

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #67 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:12pm

... wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:53am:

See? People don't have a "right" to move anywhere they please - that is what's known as a "want."

I'm curious to know what form these "attacks" on homos take? I assume you mean that they can't be legally married - well again, there is no "right" to usurp traditions for your own ends. Again, it is a want.

I never made any claim about the "right to move anywhere", that was your own incorrect diversionary interpretation. My issue is with people like sprintcyclist thinking they have right to tell people what language they are allowed to speak. If you describe speaking which ever laguage you choose is a "want" then you deserve to live in a police state.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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JC Denton

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #68 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:20pm

whats wrong with telling people what language they should have to speak

what if there was evidence that bi-lingual societies were more prone to fractition, inter-group conflict and ethnic strife

what about the more obvious effects like the general loss of convenience and the ease of communication individuals would suffer in just carrying out basic day to day tasks

or the amount of time spent and opportunity costs having to instruct students in other languages

even having to communicate on the telephone with a call centre person with a thick accent is a pain in the arse enough

it seems pretty practical from a wide variety of perspectives to promote and institute a mono-lingual society, or at least it is something worth thoroughly investigating/scrutinising before anything rash and irreversible is carried out

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The_Barnacle

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #69 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:22pm

JC Denton wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:06pm:

but yeah oh_yeah do you actually have any evidence that any of the 'right' members here want to ban homosexuality? attacking/criticising it, whatever the merit does not equal wanting to restrict the rights of homosexuals now is it?

Ever since homosexuality was reluctantly legalised the Right have objected to every attempt to have equality in the law. I'm not just talking about "marriage" here I'm talking about other rights that we take for granted. Until recently in Australia gay couples were legally just seen as "room mates" they couldn't share insurance, they couldn't see one another in hospital (they weren't "family") If one died their possessions didn't automatically go to the other.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #70 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:26pm ok cool
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JC Denton Gold Member Offline Posts: 5471 Gender:	Re: The academics who hate free speech Reply #71 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:27pm i bet oh_yeah supports hate legislation police state condemners always tend to support 'police states' of their own particular kind and preference
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The_Barnacle

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #72 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:29pm

JC Denton wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:20pm:

whats wrong with telling people what language they should have to speak

what if there was evidence that bi-lingual societies were more prone to fractition, inter-group conflict and ethnic strife

what about the more obvious effects like the general loss of convenience and the ease of communication individuals would suffer in just carrying out basic day to day tasks

or the amount of time spent and opportunity costs having to instruct students in other languages

even having to communicate on the telephone with a call centre person with a thick accent is a pain in the arse enough

it seems pretty practical from a wide variety of perspectives to promote and institute a mono-lingual society, or at least it is something worth thoroughly investigating/scrutinising before anything rash and irreversible is carried out

Of course it is more convenient for people to learn English. I also accept that English is the official language of Australia. I don't have a problem with that.

I also believe that if a person chooses not to learn English or is unable to, then in a free society that should be accepted. I don't believe there is a role for the state to be enforcing language laws on us.

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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.

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JC Denton

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #73 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:35pm

why should it be 'accepted'

why is it 'acceptable' for somebody to not want to learn a language, but it is 'unacceptable' for somebody to desire to shun that person from society for refusing to do so

furthermore i don't particularly see anything especially egregious about legislation aimed at encouraging/enforcing monolingualism, i dont pretend that this is consistent with 'freedom' and 'liberty' (dont give a bugger about either) but who cares itd prob in the long run make everybodys life easier and more pleasant

dont care eitherway tho

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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #74 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:44pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 12:12pm:

... wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:53am:

See? People don't have a "right" to move anywhere they please - that is what's known as a "want."

I'm curious to know what form these "attacks" on homos take? I assume you mean that they can't be legally married - well again, there is no "right" to usurp traditions for your own ends. Again, it is a want.

I never made any claim about the "right to move anywhere", that was your own incorrect diversionary interpretation. My issue is with people like sprintcyclist thinking they have right to tell people what language they are allowed to speak. If you describe speaking which ever laguage you choose is a "want" then you deserve to live in a police state.

You've got the right to speak whatever language you want - he'd just require you to be able to speak english in addition. As nothing is being denied or taken away by requiring someone to learn something else, no right is impinged.

It seems obvious that if Sprintcylist feels this way, he probably wouldn't have them come here in the first place, and as there is no "right" to move anywhere you please, again, no right is impinged.

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In the fullness of time...

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