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The academics who hate free speech (Read 7820 times)
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #75 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 1:07pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 12:22pm:
JC Denton wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 12:06pm:
but yeah oh_yeah do you actually have any evidence that any of the 'right' members here want to ban homosexuality? attacking/criticising it, whatever the merit does not equal wanting to restrict the rights of homosexuals now is it?


Ever since homosexuality was reluctantly legalised the Right have objected to every attempt to have equality in the law. I'm not just talking about "marriage" here I'm talking about other rights that we take for granted. Until recently in Australia gay couples were legally just seen as "room mates" they couldn't share insurance, they couldn't see one another in hospital (they weren't "family") If one died their possessions didn't automatically go to the other.


Here's a list of rights.  Which one(s) are being denied to homos?

Quote:
List of human rights

    Right to privacy
    Right to live, exist
    Right to have a family
    To own property
    Free Speech
    Safety from violence
    Equality of both males and females; women's rights
    Fair trial
    To be considered innocent until proven guilty
    To be a citizen of a country
    To be recognized as a person
    The right to express his or her sexual orientation
    To vote
    To seek asylum if a country treats you badly
    To think freely
    To believe and practice the religion a person wants
    To peacefully protest (speak against) a government or group
    Health care (medical care)
    Education
    To communicate through a language
    Not be forced into marriage
    The right to love
    The right to work
    The right to express oneself
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In the fullness of time...
 
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Karnal
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #76 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 1:11pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 12:35pm:
why should it be 'accepted'

why is it 'acceptable' for somebody to not want to learn a language, but it is 'unacceptable' for somebody to desire to shun that person from society for refusing to do so

furthermore i don't particularly see anything especially egregious about legislation aimed at encouraging/enforcing monolingualism, i dont pretend that this is consistent with 'freedom' and 'liberty' (dont give a bugger about either) but who cares itd prob in the long run make everybodys life easier and more pleasant

dont care eitherway tho


Maybe - the two biggest growing nations in the world both have multilingual societies. China and India both have national languages, but only China has successfully implimented its state-decreed national language, Mandarin. In India, Hindi is not universally spoken or read. In the south, English is spoken more than Hindi.

The same is true in Europe, and increasingly throughout Asia. It is quite rare now for young Western Europeans not to speak English fluently. In Switzerland and parts of Italy and France, many speak French, Italian, German and English.

Australia is an exception in a world that is multilingual. Go to India, China, or old trading cities like Singapore, Penang, Hong Kong, etc, and you’ll find most people speak at least 3 languages fluently.

There’s evidence that multilingual societies are much more tolerant, integrated and prosperous than monolingual ones. The reason for prosperity is that language is the key to trade. The trading cities peppered along the old Silk Route from Persia to China prospered through trade, finance and taxation, many propping up the armies and kingdoms of their respective rulers. These societies were multilingual, pluralistic, outward-looking and open to foreigners.
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Postmodern Trendoid III
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #77 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 4:14pm
 
I don't think there is any pragmatic reason to learn another language here.

It's a given that Europeans are going to speak multiple languages when their countries border on each other and are tiny.
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #78 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 4:47pm
 
Quote:
Paulson - See?  People don't have a "right" to move anywhere they please - that is what's known as a "want."


You do make me feel old. I remember the good old days when freedom of movement was one of the things that differentiated the 'West' from the Russkie commie bastards.
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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #79 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 4:49pm
 
what freedom of movement was thaT? the white australia policy? the 1924 race and naturalisation act of the united states?
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #80 - Apr 20th, 2013 at 5:42pm
 
JC Denton wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 4:49pm:
what freedom of movement was thaT? the white australia policy? the 1924 race and naturalisation act of the united states?


Grin Quite, nobody could ever accuse 'the west' of being short on hypocrisy.
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"It is in the shelter of each other that the people live" - Irish Proverb
 
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Karnal
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #81 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 12:49am
 
Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 4:14pm:
I don't think there is any pragmatic reason to learn another language here. .


I agree. To learn a language you need people to speak it with. Regularly.

Was there a pragmatic reason for Singapore to decree English as its official language following its independance?

None other than trade. In Singapore it’s common for kids to grow up with several languages - merely because people around them speak them. I’ve met ethnic Chinese Singaporeans who speak languages like Urdu and Tamil, solely because they learned from other kids in their streets and apartment blocks.

Language acquisition is a value in multilingual societies. Kids in Singapore could just as easily speak to each other in English, but kids are  curious and want to learn how other’s talk.

We don’t encourage this curiousity here. There is an unspoken rule to speak English to fit in.

Actually, this is a rule spoken all the time.

Australia is unique among the British colonies in that its early overseers did not adapt to the local languages. English officials and managers in the colonies were expected to learn the local languages. If you were sent to Africa or India or Egypt, you learnt Swahili or Hindi or Arabic and you spoke to your servants and employees in their language. This was the practice of the British until independance in the 1940s and 50s.

Arthur Phillip learned many Eora words and showed them off when he returned to England. Watkin Tench produced a short Eora dictionary. The British, it seems, have always been curious about other languages, and English has changed accordingly. The pukka set loved their worldly colonial patter, just as the soldiers and sailors came back with theirs.

Something happened, however, after the honeymoon period of early settlement in Australia, and then the successive waves of migration through the gold rush and after WWII. Governments, public servants and teachers (the nanny-state PC brigade) banned curiousity for other languages, and actively stamped them out. Aboriginals on the missions were banned from speaking their languages. Migrants were actively discouraged. Even the deaf were banned in schools from signing in their made-up language we now call, in bureaucratese, Auslan.

It’s not that Australians have not had the chance to learn different languages - it’s that language acquisition has essentially been whitewashed by decree, through successive government policies.

Interestingly, our rate of interracial marriage is now higher than countries like Singapore..Culturally and linguistically, however, we’re still rather plain. It’s a strange contrast noticed by tourists to the East Coast cities all the time. Australia’s a very multiracial society, but culturally, quite tidy and homogenised.

And we’re not like Germany and France, where groups of Turks and Arabs, for instance, live for generations without learning the local lingo. People largely integrate. This is a huge success, and it can be seen to have roots in the early policies and practices of settlers like Phillip.

So it is possible to have a national language, culture and set of dominant values, but be racially and ethnically heterogenous.

This is radically different to most other nations in our region, and a significantly different historical narrative to other British colonies.
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« Last Edit: Apr 21st, 2013 at 2:14am by Karnal »  
 
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #82 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 12:54am
 
I hate Mandarin.
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Karnal
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #83 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 2:22am
 
Then eat an orange. Gud is good, no?
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #84 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 5:20am
 
Mnemonic wrote on Apr 21st, 2013 at 12:54am:
I hate Mandarin.


Why do you hate mandarin? Because its hard?

SOB
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #85 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 11:31am
 
... wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 1:07pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 12:22pm:
JC Denton wrote on Apr 20th, 2013 at 12:06pm:
but yeah oh_yeah do you actually have any evidence that any of the 'right' members here want to ban homosexuality? attacking/criticising it, whatever the merit does not equal wanting to restrict the rights of homosexuals now is it?


Ever since homosexuality was reluctantly legalised the Right have objected to every attempt to have equality in the law. I'm not just talking about "marriage" here I'm talking about other rights that we take for granted. Until recently in Australia gay couples were legally just seen as "room mates" they couldn't share insurance, they couldn't see one another in hospital (they weren't "family") If one died their possessions didn't automatically go to the other.


Here's a list of rights.  Which one(s) are being denied to homos?

Quote:
List of human rights

    Right to privacy
    Right to live, exist
    Right to have a family
    To own property
    Free Speech
    Safety from violence
    Equality of both males and females; women's rights
    Fair trial
    To be considered innocent until proven guilty
    To be a citizen of a country
    To be recognized as a person
    The right to express his or her sexual orientation
    To vote
    To seek asylum if a country treats you badly
    To think freely
    To believe and practice the religion a person wants
    To peacefully protest (speak against) a government or group
    Health care (medical care)
    Education
    To communicate through a language
    Not be forced into marriage
    The right to love
    The right to work
    The right to express oneself


but you did forget the disclaimer

Quote:
Not everyone agrees on what the basic human rights are. Here is a list of some of the most recognized ones:


Having read those human rights it seems that the Right wing are in breach of many of them
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #86 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 12:27pm
 
Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 21st, 2013 at 5:20am:
Why do you hate mandarin? Because its hard?


Yes, it's hard.
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #87 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 1:22pm
 
.
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In the fullness of time...
 
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #88 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 1:26pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 21st, 2013 at 11:31am:
The right to express his or her sexual orientation

Safety from violence



You'll have to explain just how these rights are being breached.

Is there some state-sanctioned campaign of violence aginst homos that I haven't been told about? 
Are homos at more risk of violence than others?

And again, Homos aren't stopped from expressing their sexuality by anyone...though one could argue that paedophiles and bestialists are.

Just admit it - your rights as a homo are intact, you just loooove to whinge.
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In the fullness of time...
 
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Re: The academics who hate free speech
Reply #89 - Apr 21st, 2013 at 1:53pm
 
... wrote on Apr 21st, 2013 at 1:26pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Apr 21st, 2013 at 11:31am:
The right to express his or her sexual orientation

Safety from violence



You'll have to explain just how these rights are being breached.

Is there some state-sanctioned campaign of violence aginst homos that I haven't been told about? 
Are homos at more risk of violence than others?

And again, Homos aren't stopped from expressing their sexuality by anyone...though one could argue that paedophiles and bestialists are.

Just admit it - your rights as a homo are intact, you just loooove to whinge.


What world do you live in?
What have paedophiles and bestialists got to do with this issue?
It is also interesting that you use the term "homo" which actually refers to a genus of great apes which include modern humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo

Your posts are destroying your own argument.
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The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said.
 
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