Australian Politics Forum - Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #75 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:18pm

Quote:

IMFULLOFIT doesnt quite get the concept of money as a reward for work. Work for the dole, and paid work are two different things. One you get paid for, the other one you don't. Although I would not expect you to know that. Yes people get their unemployment benefit, which is hardly enough to survive on. Those that do work for the dole, don't get any extra money. Except a allowance to help them with their transport, which works out to about $21 a fortnight. For those unfortunate enough that have to do work for the dole rubbish. Sad

Doesn't even cover their fares and lunch, so they actually come out behind...great incentive to participate, eh?

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:24pm by Kat »

IP Logged

Sir lastnail

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 30088
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #76 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:21pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:14pm:

Quote:

Well bobby, I suppose he cant help himself. To much of that water, must have done something to him. Grin

Yes Crook,
notice he repeated the 3rd charge on the list:

Quote:

for being a right wing fascist – always denigrating the unemployed & downtrodden.

I bet you he'd have a picture of maggie thatcher on his wall Wink

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:29pm by Sir lastnail »

In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”.

IP Logged

Mnemonic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1530
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #77 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:29pm

Dnarever wrote on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

Quoting the markets thoughts is probably the most bogus concept ever made up, its just the few at the top taking everything they can from an intrinsically corrupt system.

I support a market-driven economy, but only to a point. I am fine with the idea of factory equipment costing $12 million or a stealth fighter costing $200 million, but not people. I do not believe that concept should apply to people. I do not believe that one group of people are worth 100 times more than another group. For example, the lowest annual full-time income is something like $30,000. A $1 million salary is fine, but beyond that I would find it harder to justify.

Dnarever wrote on Apr 18^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

The market is an inanimate object incapable of thought, it is just the words put in the markets mouth by those who control it.

Rational choice theory doesn't really live up to its claims.

Back to top

IP Logged

Mnemonic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1530
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #78 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:45pm

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

whinge, whine and sook like a spoilt brat or a beligerent child and i assure you you will have one f'ed up working life.

the positive people will not, under any circumstances, let the losers, whiners and negative people (ie most of the bludger socialists) within 10 miles of their business.

these sooks have no idea what they are missing out on , in terms of life satisfaction.
i truly feel sorry for people who have this sort of self pitying attitude. they harm only themselves.

they will NEVER harm me, mine or my staff, because i wouldnt let these toxic, pathetic scumbags anywhere near the things i chersih.

as they lie on their death beds with a life of complaint to reflect on, all i can say is "sionara suckers " Wink

This is understandable, except when the "fat cats" themselves start complaining. I am sure there are plenty of middle class people who can survive on a $40k-$80k annual full-time income. I am fine with someone receiving $12 million per year as long as they don't complain about an underclass that is angry about his lifestyle. You know why the underclass complains. If you get a big, fat salary, you shut up and don't complain about the underclass. You're luckier than most people.

Even if you do work hard, if you earn $200k a year you are more fortunate than most people. If middle class people can survive on $40-$80k a year, you have a lot of "disposable income" which you don't really need. Again, I am fine for these people to keep their wealth as long as they don't complain about the underclass. If you have an annual income of $200k and you have to complain about the underclass, you can't be very good at saving money.

If you want to buy an expensive house, fine, do that but don't complain about the underclass demanding more pay if the middle class can survive without your expensive house. If you want to send your kids to a private school, fine, do that, but again don't complain about the underclass. Not everyone needs a public education. When you deliberately choose to purchase more expensive goods and services, the reason why you still don't have enough money is your very own fault.

You can blame the underclass for their lack of potential, but if you have to complain about them taking some of your "disposable income," you're to blame for not being very good at saving money.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

if you show such attitude, if you show grit determination, punctuality, the ability to go the extra mile, commitment and consistency, eventually said business people will become quite fond of you, they may even look upon you as family, they may even like you more then family, they may give you a seat at the table and you can stiop scrounging for crumbs on the floor with the dogs.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

the positive people will not, under any circumstances, let the losers, whiners and negative people (ie most of the bludger socialists) within 10 miles of their business.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

these sooks have no idea what they are missing out on , in terms of life satisfaction.
i truly feel sorry for people who have this sort of self pitying attitude. they harm only themselves.

they will NEVER harm me, mine or my staff, because i wouldnt let these toxic, pathetic scumbags anywhere near the things i chersih.

It's rather funny that you criticise socialism when what you're describing here is a form of socialism: a walled garden community of employees who pat each other on the back, support each other and defend themselves from external threats. Yet, with all this "community," I would think these employees could all afford to take a pay cut. It would make the business even more efficient and profitable. If one of your employees is in financial trouble as a result of a pay cut, the company as a whole could lend a helping hand. When you've got friends, you need even less money to survive. The sense of "community" has to be pretty artificial if you have to give people a high salary to create it. It sounds more like you're "bribing" them to be "friendly."

Back to top

IP Logged

Mnemonic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1530
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #79 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 5:02pm

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:01am:

Yes. This has been my experience and observation. Employers will go to great length to keep good employees. There were a few small businesses I worked for and they ended up treating me as family. I got invited over for bbqs, beers, dinners, they lent me stuff when I needed it, gave me a whole heap of stuff for free.

That's socialism inside a corporate/company environment. The more employers do to make life easier for their employees, the less they will have to pay them. Happy employees are cheaper. People tend to think socialism is people begging for money when it's about collectivism. If you establish the right kind of collectivism, workers become cheaper because they are happier and more satisfied. If you have to pay your employees more to keep them happy, there has to be something wrong with the management of your company.

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 9:01am:

When I moved into the public sector I got a shock at how laid back and care free so many "workers" were. I also came to understand why the public sector gets so much criticism. I am in the fortunate situation now were I am even sought after because they are familiar work my work ethic, and know that there are many lazy, care free fools who don't work up to the required standard. I owe this to working in the private sector for 13 years and also my father.

I thought the whole point of the "public sector" was that we could hold it "accountable." Something has obviously gone wrong. Maybe we should have a bunch of journalists entering their premises and analysing what they're doing. The public sector works for the common people and they shouldn't need any privacy.

Back to top

IP Logged

Mnemonic

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1530
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #80 - Apr 19^th, 2013 at 5:33pm

JC Denton wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 11:46am:

i dont get why the govt finds it so difficult to find dolies actual real jobs.

work for the dole seems pretty demeaning to me. its like those make-work places for people with disabilities and the people with disabilities are aware/smart enough to know its a big joke.

maybe people on the dole could work at employment agencies or in govt departments for a month like centrelink? couldnt do a worse job than the people already in them.

No, not those employment agencies. Send them to factories instead. Newstart is around $460/fortnight. That's 30.7 hours/fortnight on a $15/hour minimum wage. We could use these people to regain some of our manufacturing capacity.

FriYAY wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 12:00pm:

Is the sand in your vagina irritating you?

Footballers get what they get because the market determines their wealth. If only 1000 people turned up to watch and the TV rights were only worth a few $100,00 and they struggled for sponsorship, they would not get as much as they do.

Fairly simple concept…..

The market pays some people too much money. The market goes up and down all the time, so it isn't really an objective measure of the worth of someone's work is it? The only reason why we have put up with this silly system is because nobody has come up with a reasonable alternative.

Kat wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 1:17pm:

To give them someone to denigrate and discriminate against.

There's no valid reason for their ignorance and vitriol.

Oh I do think they have a somewhat "valid" reason, but not a very rational one, maybe even a little hypocritical. "Fat-cat" conservatives are worried about people taking away their "disposable income." If I define a "disposable income" as something beyond what middle class people can afford to spend on basic necessities, with incomes in the range of $40k-$80k, then people above say an income of $200k have more money than they need. These "fat-cat" conservatives have the irrational fear of their quality of life slipping away. It is irrational because of the basic needs of middle class people.

Like I said, you can blame the underclass for lacking potential, but when the fat-cats complain, they are the ones to blame for being poor savers -- otherwise their complaints about the underclass taking their disposable income are completely unnecessary.

Back to top

IP Logged

The Heartless Felon

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2869
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #81 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 7:25am

Kat wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:18pm:

Quote:

IMFULLOFIT doesnt quite get the concept of money as a reward for work. Work for the dole, and paid work are two different things. One you get paid for, the other one you don't. Although I would not expect you to know that. Yes people get their unemployment benefit, which is hardly enough to survive on. Those that do work for the dole, don't get any extra money. Except a allowance to help them with their transport, which works out to about $21 a fortnight. For those unfortunate enough that have to do work for the dole rubbish. Sad

Doesn't even cover their fares and lunch, so they actually come out behind...great incentive to participate, eh?

Lunch?

Back to top

IP Logged

Kat

Gold Member

Offline

Socialism IS the answer.

Posts: 17709
Everywhere and no-where
Gender: female

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #82 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 8:49am

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 7:25am:

Kat wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:18pm:

Quote:

IMFULLOFIT doesnt quite get the concept of money as a reward for work. Work for the dole, and paid work are two different things. One you get paid for, the other one you don't. Although I would not expect you to know that. Yes people get their unemployment benefit, which is hardly enough to survive on. Those that do work for the dole, don't get any extra money. Except a allowance to help them with their transport, which works out to about $21 a fortnight. For those unfortunate enough that have to do work for the dole rubbish. Sad

Doesn't even cover their fares and lunch, so they actually come out behind...great incentive to participate, eh?

Lunch?

Yes, lunch.

The unemployed eat too, you know.

Or did you think lunches were supplied? They're not.

Back to top

IP Logged

cods

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 88048

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #83 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 9:14am

Quote:

I am not sure Cods, maybe your friend should ring fair work Australia and get some advice. Huh

thank you.will tell her........

seems discrimination if they dont allow her to return part time dont you think???

I wouldnt go along with that if it wasnt for all this paid maternity leave it kind of encourages people to increase their family only to have this dumped on them....

Back to top

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 104688
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #84 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 9:15am

Bobby. wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:14pm:

Quote:

Well bobby, I suppose he cant help himself. To much of that water, must have done something to him. Grin

Yes Crook,
notice he repeated the 3rd charge on the list:

Quote:

for being a right wing fascist – always denigrating the unemployed & downtrodden.

bump

Back to top

IP Logged

The Heartless Felon

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2869
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #85 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 10:39am

Kat wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 8:49am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 7:25am:

Kat wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:18pm:

Quote:

IMFULLOFIT doesnt quite get the concept of money as a reward for work. Work for the dole, and paid work are two different things. One you get paid for, the other one you don't. Although I would not expect you to know that. Yes people get their unemployment benefit, which is hardly enough to survive on. Those that do work for the dole, don't get any extra money. Except a allowance to help them with their transport, which works out to about $21 a fortnight. For those unfortunate enough that have to do work for the dole rubbish. Sad

Doesn't even cover their fares and lunch, so they actually come out behind...great incentive to participate, eh?

Lunch?

Yes, lunch.

The unemployed eat too, you know.

Or did you think lunches were supplied? They're not.

Why would lunch be supplied? In normal workplaces, fodder is not provided.
Or are you saying that if one is not working for the dole, one doesnt eat lunch? Even on Newstart you can eat something...

Back to top

IP Logged

Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30088 Gender:	Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay. Reply #86 - Apr 20^th, 2013 at 11:52am Quote: Well bobby, I suppose he cant help himself. To much of that water, must have done something to him. yeh to much Peckham Springs longlosers latest venture. bottling up tap water
Back to top	In August 2021, Newcastle Coroner Karen Dilks recorded that Lisa Shaw had died “due to complications of an AstraZeneca COVID vaccination”. IP Logged

aquascoot

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 34688
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #87 - Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 7:12am

Mnemonic wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:45pm:

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

whinge, whine and sook like a spoilt brat or a beligerent child and i assure you you will have one f'ed up working life.

the positive people will not, under any circumstances, let the losers, whiners and negative people (ie most of the bludger socialists) within 10 miles of their business.

these sooks have no idea what they are missing out on , in terms of life satisfaction.
i truly feel sorry for people who have this sort of self pitying attitude. they harm only themselves.

they will NEVER harm me, mine or my staff, because i wouldnt let these toxic, pathetic scumbags anywhere near the things i chersih.

as they lie on their death beds with a life of complaint to reflect on, all i can say is "sionara suckers " Wink

Even if you do work hard, if you earn $200k a year you are more fortunate than most people. If middle class people can survive on $40-$80k a year, you have a lot of "disposable income" which you don't really need. Again, I am fine for these people to keep their wealth as long as they don't complain about the underclass. If you have an annual income of $200k and you have to complain about the underclass, you can't be very good at saving money.

If you want to buy an expensive house, fine, do that but don't complain about the underclass demanding more pay if the middle class can survive without your expensive house. If you want to send your kids to a private school, fine, do that, but again don't complain about the underclass. Not everyone needs a public education. When you deliberately choose to purchase more expensive goods and services, the reason why you still don't have enough money is your very own fault.

You can blame the underclass for their lack of potential, but if you have to complain about them taking some of your "disposable income," you're to blame for not being very good at saving money.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

if you show such attitude, if you show grit determination, punctuality, the ability to go the extra mile, commitment and consistency, eventually said business people will become quite fond of you, they may even look upon you as family, they may even like you more then family, they may give you a seat at the table and you can stiop scrounging for crumbs on the floor with the dogs.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

the positive people will not, under any circumstances, let the losers, whiners and negative people (ie most of the bludger socialists) within 10 miles of their business.

aquascoot wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

these sooks have no idea what they are missing out on , in terms of life satisfaction.
i truly feel sorry for people who have this sort of self pitying attitude. they harm only themselves.

they will NEVER harm me, mine or my staff, because i wouldnt let these toxic, pathetic scumbags anywhere near the things i chersih.

It's rather funny that you criticise socialism when what you're describing here is a form of socialism: a walled garden community of employees who pat each other on the back, support each other and defend themselves from external threats. Yet, with all this "community," I would think these employees could all afford to take a pay cut. It would make the business even more efficient and profitable. If one of your employees is in financial trouble as a result of a pay cut, the company as a whole could lend a helping hand. When you've got friends, you need even less money to survive. The sense of "community" has to be pretty artificial if you have to give people a high salary to create it. It sounds more like you're "bribing" them to be "friendly."

some good points there mnemonic and i take them all.
sure some people on $200k whinge and whine. i have no time for whingers or whiners be they rich or poor.

why?

well it simply is the wrong attitude to life and it it causes harm. life will deal everyone(and i do mean everyone) some poo cards at some stage.
be it business problems, health problems, family problems.
this is the very essence of life.

now to complain or whine or feel self pity is simply foolish.
how does it help?
how can it possibly help?

a simple analysis of the facts reveals that a second wasted on self pity is a second of your life totally wasted.

why should you keep getting up off the floor and staying positive.

because you have no choice Wink

seriously, people just dont seem to get IT.

whatever the problem, whining and bitching can only make it worse and attempting to find a solution is the only course of action left to someone with any sense of logic.

so yes, make it your mantra, write it in big letters on your fridge.

NEVER GIVE UP.

and when you ask yourself why. just remember that giving up gaurantees failure,
being persistent is no gaurantee of success but the odds are better than submissive surrender.

once people understand this basic piece of logic their lives are transformed overnite.

and here is even better news. humans respond to someone who is trying to overcome adversity, they will WANT to help. they will clear the path for you.

it is such a win/win , i cannot for the life of me see why crook and co dont get on board. as i say, they have absolutely nothing to lose. think about it Wink

Back to top

IP Logged

longweekend58

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male

Re: Starting A New Job, But How Much Does It pay.
Reply #88 - Apr 22^nd, 2013 at 9:58am

Kat wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 8:49am:

The Heartless Felon wrote on Apr 20^th, 2013 at 7:25am:

Kat wrote on Apr 19^th, 2013 at 4:18pm:

Quote:

IMFULLOFIT doesnt quite get the concept of money as a reward for work. Work for the dole, and paid work are two different things. One you get paid for, the other one you don't. Although I would not expect you to know that. Yes people get their unemployment benefit, which is hardly enough to survive on. Those that do work for the dole, don't get any extra money. Except a allowance to help them with their transport, which works out to about $21 a fortnight. For those unfortunate enough that have to do work for the dole rubbish. Sad

Doesn't even cover their fares and lunch, so they actually come out behind...great incentive to participate, eh?

Lunch?

Yes, lunch.

The unemployed eat too, you know.

Or did you think lunches were supplied? They're not.

I think he was commenting that you eat lunch whether you are working or not and therefore is an irrelevancy. Or are we going to sya that it doesnt cover the cost of underwear and socks?

Back to top

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

IP Logged