Australian Politics Forum - H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops

muso

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #15 - Jul 26^th, 2013 at 1:34pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

An arbitrary number. Nothing more.

Well, I was going to tell you about how it was derived, but you've made up your mind that it's arbitrary, so go on believing what you want.

Quote:

To consider 30 years "long term", in this context, is incredibly naive.

Who said that 30 years was long term apart from you? You seem to have that mistaken impression from somewhere, but not from me. It's just a period for averaging data. Nothing to do with being long term. It's a period of time over which running averages can be applied without the interference of natural short-term variation, and it's not even universally applied.

To entertain the idea that people think 30 years is long term is incredibly naive.

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« Last Edit: Jul 26^th, 2013 at 1:39pm by muso »

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rabbitoh07

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #16 - Jul 26^th, 2013 at 5:52pm

Rider wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 10:52am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 7:50am:

Rider wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 7:10am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 6:50am:

Ajax wrote on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

muso wrote on Jul 24^th, 2013 at 9:27pm:

It's a variation of the "No warming since 1998" theme. Too short a period, plus cherry picking the time frame.

Muso there has been NO warming since 1998 when we had the El Nino, temperatures after 1998 have not surpassed the 1998 value.

Don't be silly. You have been fooled by the nonsense David Rose writes in the Daily Mail

THere has been warming since 1998.
It is clear and unambiguous

Ajax wrote on Jul 25^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

Unequivocal warming??????????......where???????...in their compuetr models...LOL

In the oceans and in the melting of ice caps and glaciers, idiot.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/jul/22/climate-change-slowdown-warming-oc...

Soooooo....your tabloid source has a bigger dick than his tabloid source Grin

No. My tabloid source actually referred to published science:

The heat content of the world ocean for the 0-700 m layer increased by 16.7x1022 J corresponding to a rate of 0.27 Wm-2 (per unit area of the world ocean) and a volume mean warming of 0.18ºC. The world ocean accounts for approximately 90% of the warming of the earth system that has occurred since 1955. The thermosteric component of sea level trend is 0.54 mm yr-1 for the 0-2000 m layer and 0.41 mm yr-1 for the 0-700 m layer of the world ocean for 1955-2010.
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/pip/2012GL051106.shtml

His tabloid source was a silly opinion piece.

Do you understand the difference?

I do, do you know how many 10's of thousands of years it will take for ocean heat increase (naturally occurring or otherwise) to affect surface temperatures and induce any statistically significant anythingness??

Yes - I do know exactly how many 10's of thousands of years it will take for ocean heat increase (naturally occurring or otherwise) to induce any statistically significant anythingness.

And you were not so pig-ignorant and read my previous post - you may have been able to work out the answer too.

It will take exactly ZERO 10's of thousands of years for ocean heat increase (naturally occurring or otherwise) to induce any statistically significant anythingness.

This is because very significant effects of the ocean warming are already being observed.

As I quoted in my last post:
The thermosteric component of sea level trend is 0.54 mm yr-1 for the 0-2000 m layer and 0.41 mm yr-1 for the 0-700 m layer of the world ocean for 1955-2010.
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/pip/2012GL051106.shtml

Sea level rise.
Do you understand what that means?
It is happening now.
Not tens of thousands of years in the future.
Now.
It is caused by the thermal expansion of warming oceans.
Oceans warming due to the increased thermal energy being re-emited back to earth as a result of the increase in the concentration of anthropogenic greenhouse gasses.

Yet you and that other retard posting on here want to believe some idiot in the Daily Mail who thinks there has been "no warming since 1998"

Morons.

Rider wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 10:52am:

There is absolutely no sane reason to be concerned. Time to put the boffins back in their boxes till they can come up with a cure for cancer or something that will actually bring benefit to mankind.

Sea level rise is no cause for concern?

I suspect that hundreds of millions of people around the world being impacted by larger storm surge events and a decline in groundwater quality would disagree with you.

Actually - there would be absolutely no sane reason for anyone to agree with you - idiot.

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops Reply #17 - Jul 26^th, 2013 at 7:19pm Good post, apart from the personal insults.
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Ajax

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #18 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:07pm

Hhhh..mmmmmm

Now lets see from 1940 to 1975 we had global cooling (tempratures fell for 35 years straight).......and these very same clowns were scaring us all about an ice age.

From 1975 to 1998 we had global warming and these clowns managed to pass a tax on the air we breath.

From 1998 till now temperatures have once again been dropping, and according to scientists who are not on the AGW gravy train temperatures will drop for thext few decades.

What are these clowns going to think of next??

Maybe antropogenic global cooling (AGC), still to do with manmade CO2, as more accumulates it contributes to cooling not warming??????

All it takes is a computer simulated model.........

BUT hold on a minute according to IPCC scientist Mojib Latif author of the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) report.

Good old Mojib is predicting cooling for the next 30 or so years?????!!!!!!!!!

But still attributes this cooling to the AGW religion which has changed its spots from global cooling to global warming to climate change to now green energy.

He needs a good kick in the back side, its one or the other, you cannot sit on the fence in this debate.

You gotta hand it to them though they have been successful in taxing us all on the air we breath.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #19 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 2:18pm

Hay rabbittoh07

You should really brush up on your homework dude before calling people names and acting as though your the only one that understands the theory that is AGW.

The oceans have not been warming since 2003.

Want proof here it is.............................

Quote:

The Argo buoy network uses 3,000 floating thermometers that spread through the worlds oceans and dive 2,000 m deep. They record the temperatures and radio them back when they surface every couple of weeks. It is the gold standard in measuring ocean temperatures. Argo became operational in mid-2003; before then we relied on erratic and highly uncertain measurements from boats. (See The UCSD Argo website.)

If the deep oceans are warming dont you think this missing heat would first affect the first 700 metres of the ocean before is got down to deeper water?

Raeding Mr.Cook over at skeptical science is like reading science fiction.

Algorians thats what they are................

If you cannot prove your thoery or hypothesis with emprical data then your theories and hypotheis are just hot wind.

joannenova.com.au/2011/12/the-travesty-of-the-missing-heat-deep-ocean-or-outer-s
pace/

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #20 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:02pm

No warming since 2003? An even shorter interval and totally flying in the face of the data.

You know, I reckon we haven't had any warming since last Summer either. Maybe that's significant. Damn those greenies. Grin

At least we now know that you get most of this from Joanne Nova's blog. (psst - she's a molecular biologist. She doesn't have any climatology credentials and several times, she has demonstrated her ignorance of basic climate science almost as effectively as you have. )

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« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:27pm by muso »

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rabbitoh07

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #21 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:10pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

Hhhh..mmmmmm

Now lets see from 1940 to 1975 we had global cooling (tempratures fell for 35 years straight).......and these very same clowns were scaring us all about an ice age.

Who were these clowns scaring you abou an ice age?

Could you provide a reference please?

Morons repeating things they here Jonesy say are not considered particularly reliable.

What have you got for us Champ?

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rabbitoh07

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #22 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:14pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

From 1998 till now temperatures have once again been dropping, and according to scientists who are not on the AGW gravy train temperatures will drop for thext few decades.

From 1998 till now the planet has been warming.

Only retards deny it.

What have you got Champ?

Show us some evidence that the planet has not been warming since 1998?

Do you have anything beyond an opinion piece in the Daily Mail by David Rose?

Anything at all?

Please show us.

Idiot.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #23 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:20pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 2:18pm:

Hay rabbittoh07

You should really brush up on your homework dude before calling people names and acting as though your the only one that understands the theory that is AGW.

The oceans have not been warming since 2003.

Want proof here it is.............................

Quote:

The Argo buoy network uses 3,000 floating thermometers that spread through the worlds oceans and dive 2,000 m deep. They record the temperatures and radio them back when they surface every couple of weeks. It is the gold standard in measuring ocean temperatures. Argo became operational in mid-2003; before then we relied on erratic and highly uncertain measurements from boats. (See The UCSD Argo website.)

If the deep oceans are warming dont you think this missing heat would first affect the first 700 metres of the ocean before is got down to deeper water?

Raeding Mr.Cook over at skeptical science is like reading science fiction.

Algorians thats what they are................

If you cannot prove your thoery or hypothesis with emprical data then your theories and hypotheis are just hot wind.

joannenova.com.au/2011/12/the-travesty-of-the-missing-heat-deep-ocean-or-outer-s
pace/

You quote the website of a Childrens TV presenter?!?!? As your defence of your bizarre conspiracy theory?!?!?
WHat is the Wiggles opinion on this? What is High-5 saying? Where do the Hooley=Dooleys stand?!?

Fvcing retard.

THe oceans are warming. Despite what a Children's TV host has told you. Moron.

http://news.sp@m/earth/oceans/ocean-holds-answer-reduced-warming-130411.htm
http://ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/critical-issues-sea-temperature-rise/
http://epa.gov/climatestudents/impacts/signs/oceans.html

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muso

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #24 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:41pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 2:18pm:

The oceans have not been warming since 2003.

Want proof here it is.............................

Quote:

The Argo buoy network uses 3,000 floating thermometers that spread through the worlds oceans and dive 2,000 m deep. They record the temperatures and radio them back when they surface every couple of weeks. It is the gold standard in measuring ocean temperatures. Argo became operational in mid-2003; before then we relied on erratic and highly uncertain measurements from boats. (See The UCSD Argo website.)

If the deep oceans are warming dont you think this missing heat would first affect the first 700 metres of the ocean before is got down to deeper water?

OK, I looked up the Joanne Nova Blog post. The obvious question is why do they (Joanne and Super Dave Evans, the self styled rocket scientist) discard the data from 0-700 metres. The data that is plotted represents 700 metres to 2000 metres. If they had read the paper that they cited in its entirety they would have found the missing data.

Considering that most heat would be present in the first 700 metres, this amounts to a very elaborate version of what is known as Murphy's correlation factor:

Quote:

. An experiment may be considered successful if no more than half the data must be discarded to agree with the theory.

That's meant to be humorous, but in the case of Joanne Nova's article it's just very sad that some people fall for it. For more Murphy's Law related humour, see:

http://www.angelo.edu/faculty/kboudrea/cheap/cheap3_murphy.htm

Actually Joanne Nova follows some very unusual conspiracy theories. Doesn't she belief that the AGW "hypothesis" was invented so that Obama could create a worldwide economic crash in the space of an afternoon so that he could declare a military dictatorship in the US?

You should see what else she believes in. Very entertaining.

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« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:47pm by muso »

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rabbitoh07

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #25 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:50pm

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

From 1998 till now temperatures have once again been dropping, and according to scientists who are not on the AGW gravy train temperatures will drop for thext few decades.

From 1998 till now the earth has been warming.
Unambiguously - despite what David Rose in the Daily Mail told you.

Oceans have been warming.
The artic ice cap has been decreasing
Global glacial mass balance has been decreasing.
Sea levels have been rising.

The earth has been warming.

ANd you deny it?!?!?

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Ajax

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #26 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:08am

muso wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 6:02pm:

No warming since 2003? An even shorter interval and totally flying in the face of the data.

You know, I reckon we haven't had any warming since last Summer either. Maybe that's significant. Damn those greenies. Grin

At least we now know that you get most of this from Joanne Nova's blog. (psst - she's a molecular biologist. She doesn't have any climatology credentials and several times, she has demonstrated her ignorance of basic climate science almost as effectively as you have. )

Do you dismiss the empirical data of 3000 buoys all over our oceans against a hypothesis from a computer simulated model?

Theory vs Real data??????

Simulated computer models vs actual measured data in the real world.

If your theory cannot be proven by real world data its just a theory!!!!

No matter how convincing the theory maybe.

And we all know about computers right, sh!t in sh!t out??

BTW Jo was an alarmist in her former life, but she saw the light and now knows the truth.

Her blog is one of the best if you want the TRUTH.

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2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Ajax

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #27 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:19am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:14pm:

Ajax wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:07pm:

From 1998 till now temperatures have once again been dropping, and according to scientists who are not on the AGW gravy train temperatures will drop for thext few decades.

From 1998 till now the planet has been warming.

Only retards deny it.

What have you got Champ?

Show us some evidence that the planet has not been warming since 1998?

Do you have anything beyond an opinion piece in the Daily Mail by David Rose?

Anything at all?

Please show us.

Idiot.

How can you blatantly lie like that, even the IPCC have admitted that there has been no warming since 1998??

Quote:

'Nothing off-limits' in climate debate

THE UN's climate change chief, Rajendra Pachauri, has acknowledged a 17-year pause in global temperature rises, confirmed recently by Britain's Met Office, but said it would need to last "30 to 40 years at least" to break the long-term global warming trend.

Dr Pachauri, the chairman of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said that open discussion about controversial science and politically incorrect views was an essential part of tackling climate change.

Quote:

Surprise Surprise... Global warming has stalled, admits Met Office

THE great global warming debate was blown wide open again yesterday when the Met Office predicted cooler than expected temperatures for the next five years.

The Met Office, one of the top cheerleaders for the man-made climate change camp, said global temperatures are likely to be lower than it forecast in December 2011.

Quote:

Leading global warming scienstist agree there has been no warming in the last 16 years, Hansen, Sato and Ruedy

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Ajax

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Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops
Reply #28 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:26am

muso wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 7:41pm:

OK, I looked up the Joanne Nova Blog post. The obvious question is why do they (Joanne and Super Dave Evans, the self styled rocket scientist) discard the data from 0-700 metres. The data that is plotted represents 700 metres to 2000 metres. If they had read the paper that they cited in its entirety they would have found the missing data.

Considering that most heat would be present in the first 700 metres, this amounts to a very elaborate version of what is known as Murphy's correlation factor:

I dont think Jo disregards it at all (0-700metres) the problem is its not there.

And the buoys go down to 2000 metres.

Quote:

That's meant to be humorous, but in the case of Joanne Nova's article it's just very sad that some people fall for it. For more Murphy's Law related humour, see:

Actually Joanne Nova follows some very unusual conspiracy theories. Doesn't she belief that the AGW "hypothesis" was invented so that Obama could create a worldwide economic crash in the space of an afternoon so that he could declare a military dictatorship in the US?

You should see what else she believes in. Very entertaining.

Hhhh....mmmmmmm

Cant battle the data (truth) then go for a character assasination, very warmist of you muso.

I thought you were a scientist???

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138004 Gender:	Re: H2O decreasing while CO2 rises! Oops Reply #29 - Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:46am Ajax wrote on Jul 29^th, 2013 at 9:08am: If your theory cannot be proven by real world data its just a theory!!!! Stand by for one of the AGW cult's most ridiculous statements: "Gravity is a theory too".
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