Australian Politics Forum - The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)

Lord Herbert

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #390 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 2:54pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 1:39pm:

It's just an outfit Herbert. Get over it.

It's not 'just an outfit' any more than was the SS uniform or a 'Hell's Angels' black leather jacket.

Burqas are a walking bill-board for a medieval cultural philosophy that has no place in Western society. It is morally offensive to the point that it should be banned.

It's anathema to everything we believe in as a free society in which women can aspire to anything a man can achieve.

"Get over it" translates as "let's not bother to explore the social and moral ramifications of women wearing such self-negating attire in our Western homeland". That's a cop-out.

Every time our own children are exposed to this nonsense in the streets of their own generational homeland they are getting the message from us that this kind of sick behaviour is normal and acceptable to our values system.

It isn't. It's an obscenity.

I don't want our kids to be exposed to this psychotic nonsense any more than I want them to watch Sh'ia sickos walking down our local streets beating themselves to a bloody mess with leather thongs.

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 1:39pm:

There are far worse things a child could be subjected to.

In the streets? Such as?

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freediver

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #391 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm

Quote:

"Get over it" translates as "let's not bother to explore the social and moral ramifications of women wearing such self-negating attire in our Western homeland". That's a cop-out.

I thought you wanted to ban it, not explore it?

Quote:

It's anathema to everything we believe in as a free society in which women can aspire to anything a man can achieve.

Except of course for the cases where a woman (or a man for that matter) chooses to wear it, in which case it is an expression of that freedom.

Quote:

Every time our own children are exposed to this nonsense in the streets of their own generational homeland they are getting the message from us that this kind of sick behaviour is normal and acceptable to our values system.

No child is going to be confused about whether it is normal. It is, however acceptable, and it is important that you let your children know that they can choose what to wear for themselves.

Quote:

In the streets? Such as?

Your rants about how a woman choosing for herself what to wear is anathema to everything we stand for.

Torpedo:

Quote:

Occasional fun is not a an everyday sighting, and as much as you want to believe that everyone is ok with that, it's not true, I am not ok with that, it violates my safety, there is never a guarantee who is under the mask, what their intentions.

So now you want to ban masks?

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Would you like it if you were on a family beach seeing a naked woman or a man, while you are out there with kids?

It happens all the time. It is only the adults that get wierded out by it. The kids hardly notice.

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Danger concludes not only in safety issues, another profound point is also the acceptance of female oppression.

So you want to tell women what they can and cannot wear to prevent female oppression?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page) Reply #392 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:11pm freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm: So now you want to ban masks? You are either insane, or a troll. You don't make any sense
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49389 At my desk.	Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page) Reply #393 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:30pm So you only want to ban them for Muslim women?
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Baronvonrort

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #394 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:30pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 4^th, 2013 at 12:32pm:

The Quran teaches believing Muslim women that they should cover most of their bodies when in public, but it doesn't say anything about anyone forcing women to wear anything.

When I lived in Saudi, one of the things that struck me was how much safer women were there than in Australia - I can remember walking home one night at 11pm and seeing women going around shopping by themselves. Couldn't imagine women in Australia feeling safe to walk around late at night.

The Quran does not say anything about the niqab or stoning to death for adultery or even how to pray, you will find that in the hadith which according to the Saudis is where they derive their laws from as well as the Quran.

Women are not allowed to go out without a mahram (male relative they are forbidden to bugger/marry) in Saudi Arabia.

This article will outline the truth about women's right to travel under Islamic law-
www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130630171762

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Torpedo

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #395 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:50pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

So you only want to ban them for Muslim women?

So, are you ok with violating the safety?
Do you guarantee that these women are not terrorist men?
And are you ok with the fact that many others have it against their free will and are scared to admit it?
So, you will defend the rights of some crazy radical self-centered fanatic, who wants to walk around like a scare-crow, so that she can feel 'freedom'?
I am sorry, you are still not making any sense.
"the king is naked, the king is naked!" (c) Hans Christian Andersen: "Emperor's new clothes"

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« Last Edit: Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:56pm by Torpedo »

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freediver

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #396 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:58pm

Quote:

So, are you ok with violating the safety?

I don't care if a woman chooses to cover her face. I do not feel scared of women wearing burqas.

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Do you guarantee that these women are not terrorist men?

No. Can you guarantee that bogans wearing thongs are not terrorists wearing thong bombs? No? Better ban thongs then.

Quote:

And are you ok with the fact that many others have it against their free will and are scared to admit it?

No.

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So, you will defend the rights of some crazy radical fanatic, who wants to walk around like a scare-crow, so that she can feel 'freedom'?

Yes. You cannot deny freedom to others without denying it to yourself. I also want to protect my own freedom to choose what to wear.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #397 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 4:24pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

Quote:

"Get over it" translates as "let's not bother to explore the social and moral ramifications of women wearing such self-negating attire in our Western homeland". That's a cop-out.

I thought you wanted to ban it, not explore it?

Both.

We're exploring the issue here. The French explored the issue ~ and then banned it. In that order.

Quote:

It's anathema to everything we believe in as a free society in which women can aspire to anything a man can achieve.

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

Except of course for the cases where a woman (or a man for that matter) chooses to wear it, in which case it is an expression of that freedom.

Freedom comes with a responsibility to the community. Some fat guy running nude across a sports field during an important game is also an expression of freedom ~ but it's illegal because it offends our cultural sensibilities.

Same with not being allowed to walk bare-chested around most shopping malls. Or sitting bare-chested in a restaurant. Or in church. Security will chuck them out.

Quote:

Every time our own children are exposed to this nonsense in the streets of their own generational homeland they are getting the message from us that this kind of sick behaviour is normal and acceptable to our values system.

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

No child is going to be confused about whether it is normal.

You really must get out more. I saw a small girl shrinking fearfully into her mother's skirt at the sight of a bagged woman walking through my local shopping centre.

Darth Vader outfits on the silver screen is one thing, but walking around your local shopping centre?

Those burqas can frighten the horses.

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

It is, however acceptable,

So far. And only legally. Morally and culturally it is an abomination that has no place in Western society ~ any more than does a woman in a bikini doing her shopping in Riyadh.

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

and it is important that you let your children know that they can choose what to wear for themselves.

Wrong.

From school days to a lifetime of employment they will be wearing what they are told to wear.

And parents will continue to tell their daughters not to dress like little sluts, and will tell their sons not to wear T-Shirts with bugger written on them.

Quote:

In the streets? Such as?

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

Your rants about how a woman choosing for herself what to wear is anathema to everything we stand for.

That one was a tough one for you to answer. Perhaps some other time.

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« Last Edit: Aug 5^th, 2013 at 7:08pm by Lord Herbert »

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Torpedo

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #398 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 4:36pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:58pm:

I don't care if a woman chooses to cover her face. I do not feel scared of women wearing burqas.

don't speak for yourself only. I wasn't asking whether you are scared, I was asking whether it is reasonable to say that it is a safety issue.

Quote:

No. Can you guarantee that bogans wearing thongs are not terrorists wearing thong bombs? No? Better ban thongs then.

how many chances bogan has when robbing a bank wearing his thongs: not a chance. Firstly he won't be able to run as fast, secondly he was captured by the cameras, thirdly, it's most probably obvious he isn't carrying bazooka.

Quote:

Yes. You cannot deny freedom to others without denying it to yourself. I also want to protect my own freedom to choose what to wear.

this isn't freedom.
For instance, free speech isn't necessarily a hate speech, if I am out and about with young children and I hear some teenagers swearing verbosely and loudly, I would ask them nicely to mind their language. It's inappropriate and unacceptable. In the severe abuse of language they can be charged, because it is offensive.
If you see someone smoking at McDonalds and refuses to walk out, it is acceptable to force them out.
If you see a guy in a balaclava walks into a bank the security would have all the rights to ask him to remove the thing.
This is no different to any of the above.
Just because it's a free country you are not expected to sh!t in the park

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polite_gandalf

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #399 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 4:44pm

freediver wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

So now you want to ban masks?

I don't think thats completely unreasonable. I would probably support a ban of all face coverings in public places - men and women. Most shops will insist on bike helmets being removed, I don't see any difference with any other face covering.

I reallly don't think its unreasonable for a society to insist on the face being exposed in the public arena. Though of course Torpedo will pretend that its not religious bigotry that driving his, and other's objection to the burqa.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page) Reply #400 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 4:46pm Torpedo wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 4:36pm: Just because it's a free country you are not expected to sh!t in the park With your permission I'm going to make this the first entry in a new thread titled ... 'Quotable quotes of the Ozpolitic Membership'.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page) Reply #401 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:05pm oh looky here - Tony Abbott's addressing muslims at a Ramadan event - singing the praises of the muslim community. Shall we add him to the list? Better start sharpening the pitchforks Herb and Yadda.
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Neferti

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #402 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:19pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:05pm:

oh looky here - Tony Abbott's addressing muslims at a Ramadan event - singing the praises of the muslim community.

Shall we add him to the list?

Better start sharpening the pitchforks Herb and Yadda.

It is a POST-Ramadan event ... Ramadan ends this Wednesday 7th. Wink

Muslims vote too, you know. Roll Eyes

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Torpedo

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #403 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:24pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 4:44pm:

I reallly don't think its unreasonable for a society to insist on the face being exposed in the public arena. Though of course Torpedo will pretend that its not religious bigotry that driving his, and other's objection to the burqa

I don't pretend, read my first topic on this forum
I think if not islam itself, but definitely islamic culture is very violent and primitive way to live.
Much like I think about Aboriginals in the old days, when they ate human meat. Or Jehova's witnesses. And yes, I see some in Christianity. But Islam primarily, it's evident, it's not me making anything up.
Aboriginals, luckily, don't practice cannibalism no longer, thankfully.

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Torpedo

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #404 - Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:33pm

Neferti wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:19pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 5^th, 2013 at 6:05pm:

oh looky here - Tony Abbott's addressing muslims at a Ramadan event - singing the praises of the muslim community.

Shall we add him to the list?

Better start sharpening the pitchforks Herb and Yadda.

It is a POST-Ramadan event ... Ramadan ends this Wednesday 7th. Wink

Muslims vote too, you know. Roll Eyes

Now, let us all be free to vote in Saudi, and demand female rights, and build Anglo/German/French etc suburbs, where women won't be able to walk in burqas, much like Lakemba these days, only with inverse principle. Freeworld

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