Australian Politics Forum - The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)

True Colours

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #465 - Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:13pm

Herbert you do realise that every terrorist attack carried out by Australian citizens was carried out by white Anglo-Saxons don't you?

From the attempted hijacking of Qantas flight 1737, to the Hilton Hotel bombing, to the Russell St bombing, to the Walsh Street assassinations - all carried out by white Anglo-Saxons.

Port Arthur, Hoddle Street, Snowtown, Central Coast, Strathfield, Milperra, Hope Forest and Coniston massacres were all carried out by white Anglo-Saxons.

The mass muders at Queen St and Belanglo Forest were carried out by people of European descent.

The attempted hijcaking of Qantas Flight 1737, and the massacre at Quakers Hill nursing home were carried out by regular church goers.

Now who should we look at with suspicion?

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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page) Reply #466 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 1:22am ...99% of Muslim terrorists give a bad name to the rest (c)
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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page) Reply #467 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 1:24am But seriously, Muslim ideology is rubbing very closely with the Nazis. For instance with regards to the treatment of women: Nazis also believed that women were inferior (regardless of race)
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True Colours

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #468 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 4:48am

Torpedo wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 1:24am:

But seriously, Muslim ideology is rubbing very closely with the Nazis.
For instance with regards to the treatment of women: Nazis also believed that women were inferior (regardless of race)

Perhaps you ae thinking of the Judeo-Christian tradition that holds woman as the cause of man's downfall, and that women are cursed.

The Bible also teaches that women are a commodity and a man can sell his own daughter.

THe Bible teaches that anyone or anything that touches a mestruating woman becomes unclean!

Bible teaches that non-virgin women and cannot marry priests, and can even be killed if they from an enemy.

Bible teaches that non-virgin bride should be killed

The Bible teaches that men are he boss of women, and that a woman who prays with her head uncovered is dishonoured.

The Bible teaches that women should be quiet and cannot teach men (compare that to Islam where some of the greatest scholars and teachers of men were women).

The Bible teaches that young widows are 'busybodies who talk nonsense".

The Bible teaches that if a woman gives birth to a daughter she is unpure for 80 days, but if she has a son she is only unpure for 40 days.

The Bible teaches that a daughter should only inherit if she has no brothers. According to the Bible the widow gets no inheritance!

The Bible teaches that a man can rape a woman, and then pay some money to the poor woman's father - he then gets to marry the victim.

In Jewish, women were not even accepted as witnesses - and the Bible says that a woman cannot even defend herself from an accusation of adultery.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #469 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:45am

True Colours wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:13pm:

Herbert you do realise that every terrorist attack carried out by Australian citizens was carried out by white Anglo-Saxons don't you?

This terror attack in Australia was done by muslims, did you forget this one TC?

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Broken_Hill

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #470 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:46am

True Colours wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 4:48am:

Torpedo wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 1:24am:

But seriously, Muslim ideology is rubbing very closely with the Nazis.
For instance with regards to the treatment of women: Nazis also believed that women were inferior (regardless of race)

Perhaps you ae thinking of the Judeo-Christian tradition that holds woman as the cause of man's downfall, and that women are cursed.

The Bible also teaches that women are a commodity and a man can sell his own daughter.

THe Bible teaches that anyone or anything that touches a mestruating woman becomes unclean!

Bible teaches that non-virgin women and cannot marry priests, and can even be killed if they from an enemy.

Bible teaches that non-virgin bride should be killed

The Bible teaches that men are he boss of women, and that a woman who prays with her head uncovered is dishonoured.

The Bible teaches that women should be quiet and cannot teach men (compare that to Islam where some of the greatest scholars and teachers of men were women).

The Bible teaches that young widows are 'busybodies who talk nonsense".

The Bible teaches that if a woman gives birth to a daughter she is unpure for 80 days, but if she has a son she is only unpure for 40 days.

The Bible teaches that a daughter should only inherit if she has no brothers. According to the Bible the widow gets no inheritance!

The Bible teaches that a man can rape a woman, and then pay some money to the poor woman's father - he then gets to marry the victim.

In Jewish, women were not even accepted as witnesses - and the Bible says that a woman cannot even defend herself from an accusation of adultery.

Was it Pope Leo who told the christians not to take the bible literally?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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moses

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #471 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:54am

True Colours wrote:
Quote:

Perhaps you ae thinking of the Judeo-Christian tradition that holds woman as the cause of man's downfall, and that women are cursed.

The Bible also teaches that women are a commodity and a man can sell his own daughter.

THe Bible teaches that anyone or anything that touches a mestruating woman becomes unclean!

Bible teaches that non-virgin women and cannot marry priests, and can even be killed if they from an enemy.

Bible teaches that non-virgin bride should be killed

The Bible teaches that men are he boss of women, and that a woman who prays with her head uncovered is dishonoured.

The Bible teaches that women should be quiet and cannot teach men (compare that to Islam where some of the greatest scholars and teachers of men were women).

The Bible teaches that young widows are 'busybodies who talk nonsense".

The Bible teaches that if a woman gives birth to a daughter she is unpure for 80 days, but if she has a son she is only unpure for 40 days.

The Bible teaches that a daughter should only inherit if she has no brothers. According to the Bible the widow gets no inheritance!

The Bible teaches that a man can rape a woman, and then pay some money to the poor woman's father - he then gets to marry the victim.

In Jewish, women were not even accepted as witnesses - and the Bible says that a woman cannot even defend herself from an accusation of adultery.

There's a lot of stuff there T.C.

Can you please explain which is Judaeo or Mosaic Law out of your examples?

My understanding is that Mosaic Law was discarded 2000 years ago By Christians e.g.:

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

It is impossible to honestly affiliate Christianity with Old Testament Laws.

As to any New Testament teachings which demean women, I know of no Christian Theocracy which oppresses women because it is the religious duty to do so.

All of the countries where Christianity is practiced are secular, we take great pride in the fact we separate church and state.

The same cannot be said for islamic countries, muslims oppress and denigrate people in keeping with the doctrine of allah / muhammad / qur'an / islam.

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True Colours

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #472 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 12:13pm

moses wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

True Colours wrote:
Quote:

Perhaps you are thinking of the Judeo-Christian tradition that holds woman as the cause of man's downfall, and that women are cursed.

The Bible also teaches that women are a commodity and a man can sell his own daughter.

THe Bible teaches that anyone or anything that touches a mestruating woman becomes unclean!

Bible teaches that non-virgin women and cannot marry priests, and can even be killed if they are from an enemy.

Bible teaches that non-virgin bride should be killed

The Bible teaches that men are he boss of women, and that a woman who prays with her head uncovered is dishonoured.

The Bible teaches that women should be quiet and cannot teach men (compare that to Islam where some of the greatest scholars and teachers of men were women).

The Bible teaches that young widows are 'busybodies who talk nonsense".

The Bible teaches that if a woman gives birth to a daughter she is unpure for 80 days, but if she has a son she is only unpure for 40 days.

The Bible teaches that a daughter should only inherit if she has no brothers. According to the Bible the widow gets no inheritance!

The Bible teaches that a man can rape a woman, and then pay some money to the poor woman's father - he then gets to marry the victim.

In Jewish, women were not even accepted as witnesses - and the Bible says that a woman cannot even defend herself from an accusation of adultery.

There's a lot of stuff there T.C.

Can you please explain which is Judaeo or Mosaic Law out of your examples?

My understanding is that Mosaic Law was discarded 2000 years ago By Christians e.g.:

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

It is impossible to honestly affiliate Christianity with Old Testament Laws.

As to any New Testament teachings which demean women, I know of no Christian Theocracy which oppresses women because it is the religious duty to do so.

All of the countries where Christianity is practiced are secular, we take great pride in the fact we separate church and state.

The same cannot be said for islamic countries, muslims oppress and denigrate people in keeping with the doctrine of allah / muhammad / qur'an / islam.

If you believe in Jesus, then how do you justify not taking these verses seriously?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the way of the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."
- Matthew 5:17

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."
- Luke 16:17

" there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."
- 2 Peter 20-21

A lot of the stuff is in the New Testament or is still taught by the church

New Testament says:

* men are the boss of women
- 1 Peter 3:1
- Collosians 3:18
- Ephesians 5:22-4
- 1 Corinthians 11:3

* a woman who prays with her head uncovered is dishonoured.
- 1 Corinthians 11:5

*Women should be quiet
- 1 Timothy 2:11

*Woman is the one who was deceived and sinful, not man
- 1 Timothy 2:14

*women cannot teach men (compare that to Islam where some of the greatest scholars and teachers of men were women).
- 1 Timothy 2:12

* young widows are 'busybodies who talk nonsense".
- 1 Timothy 5:13

* young widows shouldn't remarry.
- 1 Timothy 5:12

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wally1

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #473 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 4:00pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:13pm:

Herbert you do realise that every terrorist attack carried out by Australian citizens was carried out by white Anglo-Saxons don't you?

From the attempted hijacking of Qantas flight 1737, to the Hilton Hotel bombing, to the Russell St bombing, to the Walsh Street assassinations - all carried out by white Anglo-Saxons.

Port Arthur, Hoddle Street, Snowtown, Central Coast, Strathfield, Milperra, Hope Forest and Coniston massacres were all carried out by white Anglo-Saxons.

The mass muders at Queen St and Belanglo Forest were carried out by people of European descent.

The attempted hijcaking of Qantas Flight 1737, and the massacre at Quakers Hill nursing home were carried out by regular church goers.

Now who should we look at with suspicion?

Sometimes it makes you wonder who are behind these attacks.

A couple of years ago they arrested some UK soldiers in Iraq who where dressed as arabs and had bombs in the car.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #474 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 5:04pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 27^th, 2013 at 11:13pm:

Herbert you do realise that every terrorist attack carried out by Australian citizens was carried out by white Anglo-Saxons don't you?

From the attempted hijacking of Qantas flight 1737, to the Hilton Hotel bombing, to the Russell St bombing, to the Walsh Street assassinations - all carried out by white Anglo-Saxons.

Port Arthur, Hoddle Street, Snowtown, Central Coast, Strathfield, Milperra, Hope Forest and Coniston massacres were all carried out by white Anglo-Saxons.

The mass muders at Queen St and Belanglo Forest were carried out by people of European descent.

The attempted hijcaking of Qantas Flight 1737, and the massacre at Quakers Hill nursing home were carried out by regular church goers.

Now who should we look at with suspicion?

*******

You've done a good job getting all these individual cases together, True Colours, but I don't think I need tell you the basic flaw in you trying to draw a parallel between these totally unlinked incidences and the violence perpetrated by people who voiced the common denominator that links them all together with a shouted "Allahu Akbar!"

Except for the Ananda Marga, none of the above were inspired by loyalty to a Divine Being and a sense of unity with a global community of fellow congregationists.

I firmly believe that it's possible that a Western-oriented and compatible sect of Islam can be developed in order to accommodate to the secular realities that Muslims are confronted with in Western society.

The older parts of the Koran were infinitely more peaceful and tolerant than the later parts that abrogated those earlier writings.

Perhaps if Muslims could take their lessons from those earlier writings we would see a lot more willingness to assimilate with secular Western cultural standards than is presently the case.

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« Last Edit: Aug 28^th, 2013 at 5:28pm by Lord Herbert »

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moses

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #475 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 5:19pm

True Colours wrote: Quote:

If you believe in Jesus, then how do you justify not taking these verses seriously?

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the way of the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place."
- Matthew 5:17

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."
- Luke 16:17

" there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God."
- 2 Peter 20-21

I see you have run away from the issue of Mosaic Law being outdated'

Re Matthew 5:17:Fulfill means: Bring to a satisfactory conclusion, complete successfully.

Therefore Christ fulfilled the law, satisfactorily concluded it, completed it successfully.

Re Luke 16:17Why didn't you give the preceding verse?

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

For Christian people, the two verses explain that Mosaic law was in force until the time of John. Then the law completed successfully (did not fail) with Christ's sacrifice, Christians are now saved by faith in Christ.

Re 2 Peter 20-21 Not to sure what you're trying to say here, They are teaching that prophecies in the Old and New Testament were inspired by the Holy Ghost.

T.C. wrote: Quote:

A lot of the stuff is in the New Testament or is still taught by the church

New Testament says:
* men are the boss of women
- 1 Peter 3:1
- Collosians 3:18
- Ephesians 5:22-4
- 1 Corinthians 11:3
* a woman who prays with her head uncovered is dishonoured.
- 1 Corinthians 11:5
*Women should be quiet
- 1 Timothy 2:11
*Woman is the one who was deceived and sinful, not man
- 1 Timothy 2:14
*women cannot teach men (compare that to Islam where some of the greatest scholars and teachers of men were women).- 1 Timothy 2:12

* young widows are 'busybodies who talk nonsense".
- 1 Timothy 5:13
* young widows shouldn't remarry.
- 1 Timothy 5:12

Yes there several places where the man is given priority over the woman as the head of the house. There are very few Christians who literally follow these teachings we have moved on.

I reiterate **we are a secular society** religion and the state are separated.

continued below

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moses

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #476 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 5:20pm

from above

Now consider islamic societies where according to allah / muhammad / islam: women are stupid, are the majority of people in hell, hanging by their breasts over hell fires.

Quote:

qur'an4.015 : If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.

Self explanatory, starve a woman to death if four witnesses say she is a bit loose.

Quote:

qur'an4.034 : Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, lastly beat them ; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)

Again, women should be devoutly obedient to their husband, if he thinks she is playing up, admonish her first, don't sleep with her second, give her a hiding third.

Quote:

qur'an 24.6: As for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing) by Allah that he is of those who speak the truth;

If any bloke accuses his wife, even if he has no witnesses, his word is four times greater than hers

Quote:

qur’an 24:33: Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),

This one's a beauty, a muslim can force a maid into prostitution , the old moon god allah is forgiving

From the Hadeeth
Quote:

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”

Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”

The reason islamic societies are the dregs of the societal world can be fairly laid on the conglomeration of evil: islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #477 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 5:53pm

moses wrote on Aug 28^th, 2013 at 5:20pm:

The reason islamic societies are the dregs of the societal world can be fairly laid on the conglomeration of evil: islam / allah / muhammad / qur'an.

Kemal Ataturk realised that Islam was keeping Turkey living in the Middle Ages, and so he began a program of secularisation and Westernisation that saw Turkey make huge strides towards being a part of modern civilisation.

Unfortunately, Turkey has been backsliding into theocratism these past few years, dragging it back into the past.

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wally1

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Re: The Usual Suspects ~ (copyright Nicole Page)
Reply #478 - Aug 28^th, 2013 at 6:24pm