Australian Politics Forum - australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'

polite_gandalf

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #15 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 10:03am

JC Denton wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 12:29am:

That study found that in the period 1980–1996, both countries experienced mass shootings. The rate did not differ significantly between countries. Since 1996/1997, neither country has experienced a mass shooting event despite the continued availability of semi-automatic longarms in New Zealand.

That is about the least convincing piece of evidence I have seen questioning Australian laws. Besides, all that really needs to be said regarding Australia's situation is that Martin Bryant acquired his firearm legally and without any sort of scrutiny.

Also, regarding NZ, the article you quote is a little dishonest - since NZ has had rather tight controls on semi-automatic "rambo style" weapons since 1992:

Quote:

After the Aramoana massacre in November 1990, John Banks, the Minister for Police, announced that the government would ban what he and others described as "Rambo-style" weapons and substantially tighten gun laws generally. The law was eventually passed in 1992 and required written permits to order guns or ammunition mail-order, restricted ammunition sales to firearms licence holders, added photographs to firearms licences, required licence holders to have secure storage for firearms at their homes (which would be inspected before a licence was issued), and controversially required all licence holders to be re-vetted for new licences which would be valid for only 10 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_New_Zealand#Aramoana_and_the_1992_A...

Thus, what your article doesn't mention is that by 1996, NZ had far tighter controls on the type of weapon Bryant used, than Australia had. Thus its not really surprising that after Australia got on board with gun control, both countries saw a rapid decline in shootings using those weapons.

Chard wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 2:13am:

You have evidence to support this absurd claim?

The evidence of virtually every nation that has strict gun controls - UK, Japan, Australia etc

Gun advocates always cite the example of Switzerland, but that is clearly an atypical case.

I will also add that comparing different states in the US is somewhat flawed - since criminals in one state that has strict controls can simply acquire their guns from a neighbouring state that doesn't. Having said that, a recent study suggests that gun laws do in fact work - though the limitations of the study are acknowledged.

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #16 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:23am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

There were a string of mass shootings in the decade or so before the gun laws were brought in - and since then there has been precisely zero.

Quote:

Four men, aged between 20 and 25, were sprayed with bullets outside a western Sydney property just after 8pm (AEST) on Friday.

About 15 bullet holes were found in a garage door at the Smithfield crime scene.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/latest/a/-/latest/16905133/one-of-nsws-worst-crime-...

Wouldn't this be called a "mass shooting"?

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BigOl64

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #17 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 12:41pm

... wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

There were a string of mass shootings in the decade or so before the gun laws were brought in - and since then there has been precisely zero.

Quote:

Four men, aged between 20 and 25, were sprayed with bullets outside a western Sydney property just after 8pm (AEST) on Friday.

About 15 bullet holes were found in a garage door at the Smithfield crime scene.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/latest/a/-/latest/16905133/one-of-nsws-worst-crime-...

Wouldn't this be called a "mass shooting"?

And that was only this week.

This lie that that scumbag howard made Australia safer just does not wash when you do a quick check of the reality of living in Australia.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show' Reply #18 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:33pm ... wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:23am: Wouldn't this be called a "mass shooting"? No. Not the same as Port Arthur or Strathfield or Sandy Hook etc - which are completely random. This shooting is obviously gang related and anything but random.
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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #19 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:48pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:33pm:

... wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 11:23am:

Wouldn't this be called a "mass shooting"?

No. Not the same as Port Arthur or Strathfield or Sandy Hook etc - which are completely random.

This shooting is obviously gang related and anything but random.

So? It's still a mass shooting. If it's random attacks you're worried about, they happen fairly often in China, only they're armed with knives.

Quote:

A series of uncoordinated mass stabbings, hammer attacks, and cleaver attacks in the People's Republic of China began in March 2010. The spate of attacks left at least 25 dead and some 115 injured. As most cases had no known motive, analysts have blamed mental health problems caused by rapid social change for the rise in these kind of mass murder and murder-suicide incidents.[1] Such attacks are extremely rare in the United States such as the 2013 stabbing at the Lone Star College in Texas in 2013, and other nations have had unexplained serial killings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%9312%29

mental health problems caused by rapid social change eh? Looks like we're in for more of this...

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polite_gandalf

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #20 - Apr 28^th, 2013 at 6:56pm

... wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

So? It's still a mass shooting.

Its very simple. There were a string of 'lone wolf' random shootings in Australia before the gun laws - and zero after. The only point to be made about all other gun related crime is that it has gone down overall after the gun laws. Where there is still problems - ie handgun related gang violence - the problem clearly is not enough gun controls, since the laws on handguns are still relatively lax.

Either way, our gun laws undeniably work.

... wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 1:48pm:

If it's random attacks you're worried about, they happen fairly often in China, only they're armed with knives.

err.. ok. Good thing we're not China then. Tongue

Consider also how many more people would be dead as a result of those attacks - if the perpetrators were armed with guns instead of knives.

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Chard

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #21 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 1:46am

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 9:17am:

Chard wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 2:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 11:53pm:

Tighten laws on handguns = less guns floating around society = less guns available for criminals to steal.

You have evidence to support this absurd claim?

It's not an "absurd claim": It's simple mathematics.

Ok, greg, I know you're not that bright, but what Gandalf is suggesting is a direct causitive link between firearms ownshipn theft of legally owned fitearms, and a rise or fall in firearms crimes. So lets see some evidence for this claim.

If it's simple math then cite government statistics and show your maths. Otherwise your just regurgitating the same poo Gandalf said and has yet to prove.

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Grey

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #22 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 2:20am

Chard wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 1:46am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 9:17am:

Chard wrote on Apr 28^th, 2013 at 2:13am:

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 27^th, 2013 at 11:53pm:

Tighten laws on handguns = less guns floating around society = less guns available for criminals to steal.

You have evidence to support this absurd claim?

It's not an "absurd claim": It's simple mathematics.

Ok, greg, I know you're not that bright, but what Gandalf is suggesting is a direct causitive link between firearms ownshipn theft of legally owned fitearms, and a rise or fall in firearms crimes. So lets see some evidence for this claim.

If it's simple math then cite government statistics and show your maths. Otherwise your just regurgitating the same poo Gandalf said and has yet to prove.

You ever been outside the states chard? Fact is most if not all your major cities have no go areas where gun battles on the street are common. Fact is a foreigner with no contacts can score a gun free of trace within 24 hours of crossing the border. Guns are absolutely a problem in your society.

There's nothing like that problem in Australia, Germany, Britain, France, or any other country where there are reasonable gun control laws. Think of the children man.

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Chard

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #23 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 2:58am

Grey wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 2:20am:

You ever been outside the states chard?

Many times and I noticed that people still get shot in countries with heavy firearms restrictions.

Quote:

Fact is most if not all your major cities have no go areas where gun battles on the street are common.

Show evidence for these "common" gun battles. Last one I can think of that qualified as a "battle" was the Hollywood bank robbery shooting back in the 1990s.

Quote:

Fact is a foreigner with no contacts can score a gun free of trace within 24 hours of crossing the border.

Oh, a fact is it? Then you won't mind showing evidence of this claim.

Quote:

Guns are absolutely a problem in your society.

No, our problems go a lot deeper than gun laws and only an idiot would attempt to claim otherwise. We've tried restricting entire classes of firearms before and we've found that such bans simply do nothing at all. Assault Rifle ban didn't have any effect on firearms crimes or deaths. The Brady Bill and sevenday waiting periods, negligable effect at the cost of aj average of $300mil a year to ovetsee the program and registry database.

What does work is educating people about firearms, gun safety and the like. Expanding law enforcement into areas of high crime, that actually does something. Locking your firearms and ammunition in an actual secure storage deterrs theft.

But waving your arms about making wildass claims with valid basis in reality doesn't do anything more than make yourself feel good.

Quote:

There's nothing like that problem in Australia, Germany, Britain, France, or any other country where there are reasonable gun control laws. Think of the children man.

Did you even read the smacking thread? Your supposedly reasonable gun laws in Australia haven't accomplished anything other than deprive law abiding citizens.

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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26513 Australia	Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show' Reply #24 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 5:18am the criminals are still killing each other off with the guns that werent handed back. Normal ppl dont come into contact with them so much anymore though. the culture of australia was never like america anyway. SOB
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KJT1981

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #25 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:52am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 5:18am:

the criminals are still killing each other off with the guns that werent handed back. Normal ppl dont come into contact with them so much anymore though. the culture of australia was never like america anyway.

SOB

Wrong Miss Borg. The criminals are killing each other with illegally imported and stolen guns.

I guess that means you are constantly in contact with illegal guns Miss Borg. Lets face it you aren't.................

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #26 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:59am

KJT1981 wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:52am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 5:18am:

the criminals are still killing each other off with the guns that werent handed back. Normal ppl dont come into contact with them so much anymore though. the culture of australia was never like america anyway.

SOB

Wrong Miss Borg. The criminals are killing each other with illegally imported and stolen guns.

I guess that means you are constantly in contact with illegal guns Miss Borg. Lets face it you aren't.................

WTF? Why would you say that?

And it has been said over and over in parliament that its guns that werent given back in the buyback. Not imported.

SOB

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KJT1981

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #27 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 7:03am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:59am:

KJT1981 wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 6:52am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 5:18am:

the criminals are still killing each other off with the guns that werent handed back. Normal ppl dont come into contact with them so much anymore though. the culture of australia was never like america anyway.

SOB

Wrong Miss Borg. The criminals are killing each other with illegally imported and stolen guns.

I guess that means you are constantly in contact with illegal guns Miss Borg. Lets face it you aren't.................

WTF? Why would you say that?

And it has been said over and over in parliament that its guns that werent given back in the buyback. Not imported.

SOB

Of course Miss Borg. How silly of me.

Miss Borg knows all.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show' Reply #28 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 8:01am Chard wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 2:58am: and I noticed that people still get shot in countries with heavy firearms restrictions. third world countries yes - but which first world countries? They are the only countries you can compare with the US.
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Chard

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Re: australian gun laws on the american 'daily show'
Reply #29 - Apr 29^th, 2013 at 10:11am

polite_gandalf wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 8:01am:

Chard wrote on Apr 29^th, 2013 at 2:58am:

and I noticed that people still get shot in countries with heavy firearms restrictions.

third world countries yes - but which first world countries? They are the only countries you can compare with the US.

Are you trying to say that the only first world country to have firearms homicides is the US?

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