Australian Politics Forum - After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests

Yadda

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After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
May 1^st, 2013 at 1:39pm

After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

What i want to know, is when the Sydney moslem community later held a press conference, why didn't the community spokesmen unequivocally 'condemn' the Sydney CBD protesters ???

e.g. The Sydney moslem community could have made a statement like this;

"We, the moslem community, condemn this incitement to murder, by persons purporting to be moslems."

THESE [below] ARE THE WORDS THAT WERE BROADCAST ON NATIONAL TV IN AUSTRALIA [AFTER MOSLEM PROTESTERS CARRIED PLACARDS IN THE SYDNEY CBD, CALLING FOR THE BEHEADING OF THOSE THAT OFFEND MOSLEMS/INSULT ISLAM];

"It is an 'image' that we condemn. Unequivocally. We are very stressed to see such images."

<----- I do not know how that video report was edited by Channel 7, but in those words [presented in the Channel 7 video report], the spokesman for the Sydney moslem community could have been referring to >> the police << behaviour, in 'confronting' moslems, on the streets of Sydney.

e.g. The very next statement [by the very same spokesman], for the Sydney moslem community, demonstrates just how ambiguous the statements [that were presented in the Channel 7 video report] from the Sydney moslem community were, regarding the protest 'incident' involving moslems in the Sydney CBD !!;

"The majority of the Australian moslem community, particularly the mainstream, have not and will not educate our children in a way that ISLAM does not believe in."

That is a very ambiguous statement, to anyone who is familiar with what ISLAM does 'allow' [to be taught to moslem children] !

The moslem woman in the video report, merely states that she wants all of the attention about this incident to go away.

YT
Muslim leaders 'call for calm' goto 1m 40s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyKXA2b9WI4

+++

What do we naive Westerners know, about what moslems are obligated [by their 'religion'] to teach to their children ???

EXAMPLE #1,

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric
By Luke McIlveen and staff writers
January 18, 2007
SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).
"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/australia-muslim-cleric-calls-jews-pigs-and-ur...

EXAMPLE #2,

IMAGE

SCHOOL IS IN, ISLAMIC STYLE

Quote:

Taliban condemned for using boy, 12, to conduct video beheading
25 April 2007
The Taliban's use of a young boy to conduct a gruesome execution has been condemned by Unicef as a criminal act.
A video circulating on the internet shows a young boy beheading a man, believed to be Ghulam Nabi, a Pakistan militant accused of betraying the Taliban.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-450564/Taliban-condemned-using-boy-12-co...

n.b.
The execution of this person [even by a 12 year old boy] was totally 'lawful', and in accordance with what Sharia law demands.

The victim was beheaded because of his apostasy [abandonment of ISLAM], and for his supposed 'betrayal' of local moslems.

Warning!!
The following video clip is very, very, distressing to watch

http://www.aussie-patriot.com/Video/Muslim_12yr_Old_BUTCHERS_Hostage.wmviBack to the comments [by the spokesman for the Sydney moslem community], on the Sydney CBD protests of 2012 ;

Note well, the form of words used;

"The majority of the Australian moslem community, particularly the mainstream, have not and will not educate our children in a way that ISLAM does not believe in."

- - spokesman for the Sydney moslem community, 2012

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« Last Edit: May 1^st, 2013 at 1:47pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #1 - May 1^st, 2013 at 5:05pm

Yadda wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 1:39pm:

What i want to know, is when the Sydney moslem community later held a press conference, why didn't the community spokesmen unequivocally 'condemn' the Sydney CBD protesters ???

what actually happened:

Quote:

Samir Dandan, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association, was speaking today at a press conference organised to announce the Islamic community's response to Saturday's events.

Mr Dandan said this morning the handful of violent protesters were young "freelancers" in the Muslim community who move between groups and are not tied to any mosque or particular organisation.

"It's our shortcoming," he said. "We have not really engaged with these individuals."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/muslims-inundated-with-messages-of-hate-20120918-263gj.html#ixzz2S1NTzW8l

Quote:

He said he would like those responsible for criminal acts at the weekend not just to be locked up but, rather, be educated more intensely by mainstream Muslim groups so as not to "drive them more underground and give them a little bit more oxygen".

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/muslims-inundated-with-messages-of-hate-20120918-263gj.html#ixzz2S1NanJ3i

Quote:

The 25 Muslim leaders who met last night also decided to break ranks with their international counterparts by saying that protests over the YouTube film insulting the prophet Muhammad were unacceptable and un-Islamic.

They decided they would not endorse any protest, even peaceful demonstrations, following Saturdays violent scenes, which they said were worse than the Cronulla riots.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/muslims-inundated-with-messages-of-hate-20120918-263gj.html#ixzz2S1NhqDQF

In Victoria, muslim leaders were being proactive to prevent a repeat of what happened in Sydney:

Quote:

The Board of Imams Victoria called an emergency meeting yesterday to introduce a range of measures to prevent a copycat riot in Melbourne.

Imams will preach a common sermon of peace during prayer time this Friday condemning the scenes of violence in Sydney last weekend.

Quote:

Victoria Police are liaising with local imams and Muslim leaders to head off potential protests and say they are confident there would be no repeat of the violent confrontation. Police say they will monitor social media for early warnings of further protests.

Sheik Aziem believes there is no imminent danger of bloody riots in Victoria, but says precautionary measures should still be taken.

So, on planet earth, what actually happened was that Sydney muslim leaders call an emergency meeting, followed by a press conference in which they uncategorically:

1. distance themselves from the protesters and the splinter group that organised it - while at the same time, taking responsibility for their (ie Australian muslim leaders) "shortcomings" in not engaging properly with the perpetrators.

2. condemn it - calling for punishment and re-education of the perpetrators

3. take the unprecedented move of calling ANY protest over the film - violent or not - as unacceptable and unislamic

Meanwhile, in Victoria, islamic leaders immediately condemned the protests and took proactive measures to prevent a repeat of what happened in Sydney.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests Reply #2 - May 1^st, 2013 at 5:10pm Of all the migrant groups integrating or integrated in Australia, lebanese muslims are going backwards. It must come back to the family. Other migrant groups grab whatever they can but these people want to do it their way. Australia isn't a hard place to live but they are making it hard.
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polite_gandalf

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #3 - May 1^st, 2013 at 5:17pm

Of course, the genius of Yadda is that he could just as easily have spewed his vitriol in exactly the opposite way (and has done before incidentally).

He could have taken the actual unequivocal response and used it to prove muslim's deceit and hidden agenda.

"google taqqiya" - he would have written.

All muslims in Australia are "sleepers", waiting to rise up - or as Yadda put it so eloquently recently - just waiting to be "activated". Meanwhile, they must do what all good muslims do in western countries - deceive the host population, pretend they are peace loving, harmless people. Lull them into a false sense of security see.

I think Yadda flips a coin before every post to see which version of evil muslims he is going to run with.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Big Dave Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2164 Gender:	Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests Reply #4 - May 1^st, 2013 at 5:20pm The muslim people I have met in my life have been some of the best people I know. But some feel that the people walking around them in daily life are the enemy. Who and what is making them feel like that?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #5 - May 1^st, 2013 at 5:43pm

I daresay its a siege mentality Dave.

Many muslims feel (rightly or wrongly) that western non-muslims see them as the enemy. This triggers defensive mechanisms which can express themselves in outward hostility.

I don't know exactly why this has happened - and I don't think it can all be explained by international events, particularly 9/11 - but what is undeniable is that in the last decade or so, there has been an increasing emphasis in our society of recognising "muslim identity". Case in point is the Lebanese community. The Lebanese muslims, and the social problems that is associated with them has been with us since the late 70s. But the funny thing is, until recently, we never saw it as a specifically "muslim" issue. It was simply an issue of "Lebanese" or "arab" migrants. People simply weren't making the noises about islam back then that they do now - and no, the population proportion has remained almost steady (around 2% today). The first public mosque was built in Australia in 1976 (by Lebanese migrants) with barely an eyebrow raised. And yet today, you can't even propose an islamic school without a massive media frenzy, and pig heads being posted at the proposed site. People simply didn't care back then - and yet exactly the very issues that causes so much consternation today - muslim crime, muslim unemployment, perceived issues of migrant integration - were no better and no worse than they are now.

Australian attitudes changed - and with them so did the muslim's.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Big Dave

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #6 - May 1^st, 2013 at 8:05pm

Australian attitudes changed - and with them so did the muslim's. By Gandalf.

Let's hope so. I was going to write up a post about marginalisation and alienation. I was born in a bad environment and I never wanted to rob somebody or do crime. There's no excuse for being a scumbag. It's about personal choices and strength or weakness. I hope community leaders , family etc are pointing their people in the right direction.

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Yadda

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #7 - May 1^st, 2013 at 8:59pm

Big Dave wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:20pm:

The muslim people I have met in my life have been some of the best people I know.

But some [moslems] feel that the people walking around them in daily life are the enemy.

Who and what is making them feel like that?

Who and what is making moslems feel like they are at war with an enemy ?

Err, could it be their own religion and their own 'clergy' ?

e.g.

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

AND;

Quote:

Use children as troops, says cleric
By Luke McIlveen and staff writers
January 18, 2007
SYDNEY'S most influential radical Muslim cleric has been caught on film calling Jews pigs and urging children to die for Allah.
Firebrand Sheik Feiz Mohammed, head of the Global Islamic Youth Centre in Liverpool [Australia], delivered the hateful rants on a collection of DVDs called the Death Series being sold in Australia and overseas.
.........Sheik Feiz says in the video.
"We want to have children and offer them as soldiers defending Islam. Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior). Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom."
An Australian citizen born in Sydney who has spent the past year living in Lebanon, Sheik Feiz was exposed this week in a British documentary Undercover Mosque.
......"The peak, the pinnacle, the crest, the highest point, the pivot, the summit of Islam is jihad," he declares in the film, before denouncing "kaffirs" (non-Muslims).
"Kaffir is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/australia-muslim-cleric-calls-jews-pigs-and-ur...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #8 - May 1^st, 2013 at 9:03pm

Big Dave wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:20pm:

The muslim people I have met in my life have been some of the best people I know.

But some [moslems] feel that the people walking around them in daily life are the enemy.

Who and what is making them feel like that?

polite_gandalf wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:43pm:

I daresay its a siege mentality Dave.

Many muslims feel (rightly or wrongly) that western non-muslims see them as the enemy. This triggers defensive mechanisms which can express themselves in outward hostility.

I don't know exactly why this has happened.....

gandalf,

Of course you do not,
....of course, you do not want to acknowledge and confront, what has caused this public outburst of 'outward hostility' by moslems, on the streets of Sydney.

It was ISLAM which inspired this outburst of 'outward hostility' by moslems.

It was not Yadda.

IMAGE...

Sydney, 2012, moslem street protests.
Moslems, 'demonstrating', just how 'peaceful' ISLAM and moslems really are.

IT WAS NOT Yadda who caused those moslems

to display those placards with an incitement to murder, calling for moslems to behead of those that offend moslems/insult ISLAM.

It was the 'religious' doctrines of ISLAM which caused and inspired those moslems to display those placards with an incitement to murder, calling for moslems to behead of those that offend moslems/insult ISLAM.

It is called; Jihad, in Allah's cause.

Within its own 'religious' texts, ISLAM declares,
TO THE WHOLE WORLD,
that it is DESIRABLE, and glorious, for a moslem to die fighting for Allah's cause [Allah's cause, is the bondage [enslavement] and oppression of all mankind].
And ISLAM's adherents are taught to seek [their own] violent death, in Jihad.

The Hadith;

"The Prophet said, "Nobody who dies and finds good from Allah (in the Hereafter) would wish to come back to this world even if he were given the whole world and whatever is in it, except the martyr who, on seeing the superiority of martyrdom, would like to come back to the world and get killed again (in Allah's Cause)." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.053

etc, etc...
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.054
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.072
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.046
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.065
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.080i

"Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, "To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah's Cause." "
hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #001.002.026

THESE ARE THE WORDS OF ALLAH, ISLAM's HIGHEST AUTHORITY...

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #9 - May 1^st, 2013 at 9:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 5:17pm:

.....
All muslims in Australia are "sleepers", waiting to rise up - or as Yadda put it so eloquently recently - just waiting to be "activated".

gandalf,

Q.
Why do you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that it was the MAINSTREAM teachings of ISLAM, which caused this public outburst of 'outward hostility' by moslems, on the streets of Sydney ?

Q.
And why do you refuse to acknowledge and confront, that it is ISLAM itself and the clerics, which always determine and advise when moslems should 'activate' themselves, in the 'defence' of ISLAM. i.e. at the most opportune and propitious moment, which would favour moslems in their 'Jihad operations' ?

A.
You are a devout moslem [and in that, an insincere person].

I find it difficult to believe that you are a sincere person, gandalf, despite the protestations, of some on OzPol, that you are, a sincere person.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #10 - May 2^nd, 2013 at 12:02pm

Yadda wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 9:49pm:

And why do you refuse to acknowledge and confront, that it is ISLAM itself and the clerics, which always determine and advise when moslems should 'activate' themselves, in the 'defence' of ISLAM. i.e. at the most opportune and propitious moment, which would favour moslems in their 'Jihad operations' ?

Thats fine Yadda, but what do you make of the protests in light of what you say here - given that:

1. the participants, numbering maybe one or two hundred, were not affiliated with any mainstream muslim organisation, and certainly weren't endorsed by any mainstream muslim leader.

2. Mainstream muslim leaders immediately distanced themselves from the protests and condemned it.

3. Mainstream muslim leaders then made the unprecedented step of publicly discouraging any further protest on this matter (peaceful or otherwise) as "unislamic" - peaceful protesting - a democratic right being frowned upon - imagine that.

So how does this fit in with the broader context you mention, of "mainstream" islam being the "trigger" for activating violence in the name of islam? Do you agree that this particular example is not a very good one to use? Or if not, how can you explain the fact that after supposedly "activating" these protestors, these clerics were suddenly condemning them, calling them to be locked up, and warning against any further such protests (in direct conflict with your original claim of deliberate ambivalence)? Would you agree that if these mainstream clerics really wanted to "activate" the muslim hordes, they would do a better job than just let a motley crew of a few dozen idiots scream and chant with a few placards?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Adamant

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #11 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 11:57am

Gandalf I think you have deliberately understated the number of violent muslims that took part in the Sydney riots. It comes as no surprise to me though as muslims have always lied to the true believers.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=sydney+riots+2012&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=...

Whatever the number they have shown the true face of islam.

The article below was also written by a muslim apologist and tries to blame the west for islams terrible crimes.

"The deep emotional anguish felt by even the most educated and usually rational Muslims is closely linked to the special place assigned to Prophet Mohammad. In our belief system, the Prophet is the messenger through whom God communicated the message contained in Qur’an. His life, actions and views provide understanding of God’s message. He occupies a sacred space in the hearts of Muslims around the world. Any disrespect is felt as an intrusion into this sacred space".

http://theconversation.com/sydney-riots-muslim-responses-to-provocation-must-be-...

People will be appearing in court over the riots in the coming months. I look forward to them receiving the most severest of penalties!

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #12 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 12:35pm

Quote:

..........even the most educated and usually rational Muslims is closely linked to the special place assigned to Prophet Mohammad. In our belief system, the Prophet is the messenger through whom God communicated the message contained in Qur’an. His life, actions and views .........

Was this when he married his nephews wife ?
Or had his sex harem running?
Or taking more sex slaves?
Or beheading 13 year old jewish boys ?
Or thanking others for their political assassinations ?

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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polite_gandalf

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #13 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 12:41pm

Adamant wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 11:57am:

Gandalf I think you have deliberately understated the number of violent muslims that took part in the Sydney riots. It comes as no surprise to me though as muslims have always lied to the true believers.

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=sydney+riots+2012&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=...

right, there are at least 30-40 rioters in those photos. I said maybe a couple of hundred. A small number of people can make a big show. So there are almost 500,000 muslims in Australia - Yadda seems to think this is a good example of muslim leaders "activating" their flock to cause mayhem in the name of islam. Would you agree that 200 out of half a million isn't exactly a show of force?

Adamant wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 11:57am:

Whatever the number they have shown the true face of islam.

Wouldn't the "true face" of islam be demonstrated by something that represented the majority of muslims? Say like the muslim leaders that came out and immediately condemned and disowned the rioting? Do you think its fair to label 200 (max) hooligans as the "true face" of islam, while dismissing the hundreds of thousands of muslims who did not partake in that hooliganism?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: After the 2012, Sydney CBD, moslem street protests
Reply #14 - May 4^th, 2013 at 11:28am

Anyway, just getting back to the topic. Yadda made the point in his opening post:

Yadda wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 1:39pm:

"It is an 'image' that we condemn. Unequivocally. We are very stressed to see such images."

<----- I do not know how that video report was edited by Channel 7, but in those words [presented in the Channel 7 video report], the spokesman for the Sydney moslem community could have been referring to >> the police << behaviour, in 'confronting' moslems, on the streets of Sydney.

The full context of that statement is in this video:
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/its-our-shortcoming-we-have-not-really-engaged-with-th...

The statement was an answer to this question, which can be heard at 2:00 minutes in the video:

Quote:

so you condemn the presence of children there on Saturday afternoon?

Hence the answer:

Quote:

"It is an 'image' that we condemn. Unequivocally. We are very stressed to see such images."

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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