polite_gandalf wrote on May 2^nd, 2013 at 12:02pm:



...in this place, at this moment in time.

Undoubtedly, such public declarations are insincere.

Because on so many previous occasions, moslems have similarly stated one thing publicly, only then to been seen to state something completely different, when speaking to a moslem audience.            taqiyya


Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar


gandalf,

You refer to yourself as a believer, in God.

But you and yours, will always be the "kuffar".

Both a moslem and an [accused] 'disbeliever', need only open and the read the pages of the Koran [**22222], to understand what ISLAM's true intent toward ALL 'disbelievers' is.

What does that world Arabic word "kuffar", mean again, gandalf ???





gandalf,

There is nothing sincere in the way in which an individual moslem [and indeed the whole moslem community], conducts their 'relationship', towards [stronger] disbelievers.

But gandalf, you already know all of that.

Again, you and yours, will always be the "kuffar".


gandalf,

Why do you want me to imagine, that you are that peculiar devout moslem ?

A moslem, that never goes to the mosque, and who never studies the Koran, and who has has no understanding of the militant connotation of the phrase, 'the cause of Allah' ?





+++

There is no virtuous intent or benevolence residing within ISLAM, towards those who reject ISLAM.            [Koran 2.98]

If moslems make any display or talk of desiring good relations between moslems and the non-moslem host community, then such public displays [and talk] are [simply, and only] because moslems know that at that particular moment in time, that they must present such a 'face' [**33333] to the non-moslem host community.

But not because such a display of community 'cooperation' with a non-moslem authority, reflects the true moslem intent, towards their non-moslem hosts.                        [**55555]

The only reason moslems will make concessions to disbelievers is because moslems know themselves know that they must - because the moslems do not yet have the means to impose their own will and intents, upon the disbelievers.






Wherever moslems begin to live among a larger non-moslem host community, moslems will at first ask meekly and politely for concessions and respect for their 'religion'.

But when the number of moslems living among a non-moslem host community has increased substantially [as it invariably does], the 'attitude' of the moslems, towards their non-moslem host community, will exhibit a dramatic change.

The moslems will then increasingly demand concessions and respect for their religion, from their non-moslem host community.

And if the concessions demanded by the [growing] moslem community, and the level of 'respect' for ISLAM/moslems demanded by the moslem community, are not forthcoming, 'extreme' but supposedly 'isolated' elements within the moslem community will then begin to make threats of violence.





Eventually, as their 'constituency' grows, the moslem community will become more vociferous in expressing the demands that they make.

And then those moslem demands for concessions and respect for their religion will be 'demonstrated' aggressively [and sometimes 'demonstrated' violently].                  [And if the moslem 'mainstream' community does apologise for these 'outbursts' among a 'marginalised' 'minority' among them, the apology from moslems will be tempered, with an explanation [from the moslem 'mainstream' community] that these 'outbursts' by individuals may have been, or were, provoked, by the attitudes or the conduct of non-moslems, towards ISLAM/moslems.
i.e. "So you need to show ISLAM/us moslems more respect, then these outbursts, from some members of our community will not happen!"]

Each and every 'incident' of these aggressive [and sometimes violent] public displays/demonstrations/threats by the moslems, is merely the moslem community 'testing the level of fear' [of moslems] among their non-moslem host community.            [**44444]

WHAT THE MEMBERS OF A NON-MOSLEM HOST COMMUNITY NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS;
Once a non-moslem host community starts to respond [to these 'isolated' threats and violent 'outbursts', by the moslems] by making 'respectful' 'cultural' concessions to moslems, an inexorable cycle of 'cultural intimidation' will begin.

More and more demands [and accompanying 'threats'] will be forthcoming from the moslem community for more and more 'cultural' concessions from the non-moslem host community [to demonstrate their proper 'respect' of the moslem community and their religion].

Such concessions made by non-moslems, will portrayed in [and justified by the leaders of] the broader community, as non-moslems simply and properly demonstrating their willingness to show the required, 'respect', to the moslem community and their religion.

Long story short Yadda, you lied about how the muslim leaders reacted in your OP, and I called you on that lie.

You can spin this now into a "oh muslims are just being insincere" meme - thats fine. But understand that you are now completely contradicting what you said in the OP.

And you have the hide to call me dishonest.

Yadda wrote on May 7^th, 2013 at 9:20am:


right Yadda. We'll just discard your opening post then:

Quote:


What muslims were saying seemed important to you then - now you are saying it is totally irrelevant.

Is this about turn because I caught you out lying? ie:

Yadda wrote:
Quote:


polite_gandalf wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 11:28am:


So there you go folks. Yadda will be outraged by what he claims muslims say or don't say. Then when his claim is exposed as a lie, suddenly what muslims say is "totally irrelevant".

And in virtually every post he makes, he calls muslims dishonest 

Yadda wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 11:34am:


My question is why were you so interested in what muslims were saying in the OP? You firstly judge muslims by what they say, then you say its irrelevant what they say.

Yadda wrote in the OP
Quote:


They did condemn it, I demonstrated clearly that they condemned it. You can no longer run with this lie, so you twist it into the old "doesn't matter what muslims say - they are lying anyway".

Thats fine Yadda, I can't rationally debate this logic, but it will be enough for me if you at least acknowledge that you yourself were dishonest about your first accusation against muslims.

Yadda wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:


"It is an image that we condemn. Unequivocally."

Why is it so hard for you to even acknowledge the actual words used Yadda?

Yadda wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 12:45pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 1:44pm:



gandalf,

AGAIN.....
Why did the Sydney moslem community simply fudge their statement, their community statement that was intended to 'clearly' declare their own position ??? ;

polite_gandalf wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 11:28am:





gandalf,

AGAIN.....
When the Sydney moslem community had an opportunity to unequivocally condemn those "BEHEAD THEM!!" placards protesters.....

TO CONDEMN THOSE PERSONS WHO ARE; 'NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF ISLAM/THE MOSLEM COMMUNITY',
.....why didn't the Sydney moslem community do that ?

Hmmmmm ?



i.e.



IMAGE...
i







Quote:



gandalf,

Hell beckons you.

How can you doubt it,      ....kaffir.


Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuffar





"Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but satan's promises are nothing but deception.
They (his dupes) will have their dwelling in Hell, and from it they will find no way of escape."
Koran 4.120

"Then, on the Day of Judgment,.....Then would they offer submission (with the pretence), "We did no evil (knowingly)." (The angels will reply), "Nay, but verily [God] knoweth all that ye did;"
Koran 16.27


Hey gandalf,

Don't you believe,
......that God knows, of a certainty, who the kaffir is ???i







And thanks for the image, grey.

Hey grey,


Here is a soul i have found, that i have no argument with.         

http://www.solitaryroad.com/

Enjoy.             

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 3:29pm:



Yes, but that statement by moslems is referring to the violence by the police [against moslems].

No ???????????

Then why not nominate and identify, those whom they were referring to ?

e.g.

Quote:
i






Quote:


"The individuals responsible for the violent outburst...."




That statement by the moslem community, is a condemnation of police violence against moslems.

No ???????????

Then why not nominate and identify, those whom they were referring to ?


e.g.

Quote:
i Quote:




Which again, is a 'statement' which declares ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

There is NO condemnation by the moslem community, of the incitement to violence by those persons purporting to be moslems.


And Hizb ut-Tahrir 'correctly' [is reminding the moslem community] that it is forbidden for a moslem to issue such a rebuke, against fellow moslems.

It is 'UN-ISLAMIC' and 'unlawful' for any moslem, to criticise the wrong-doing of other moslems.



Dictionary;