Muhammed was a big fan of collective punishment. He used it to justify slaughtering Jews on many occasions. What it means is that if any one of them pisses you off, you can make the entire community suffer for it. Note that he did not instruct the Muslims to always be upright, to be tolerant, to turn the other cheek, to forgive. He gave them licence to be underhanded and to blame the inevitable escalations of violence on the other party.

Has this thread really deteriorated to the school-yard level of 'he said, she said?

Despite all the differences contained within the Muslim sphere, there remains the common denominator of an antipathy and aggression against any belief or societal norm that stands against Islam. No opposition allowed nor tolerated.

To deny the recent aggressive expansion, all over the globe, by whatever means, of the Islamic ideal, by whatever sect or division, is equivalent to denying your own ageing.

For those of us who are accused of scaremongering, perhaps it's a case of not seeing the trees because of the forest. 

Yadda wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 8:09pm:


Perhaps it is because of non-acceptance by bigots such as yourself?

It takes two to tango, Yadda.  Most Muslims are like any other group of people, they just want to be left alone to get on with their lives but persecution by people such as yourself makes that a bit difficult don't you think?

I have known personally and professionally quite a few Muslims.  Never had a problem with them.  They just wanted to be left alone and I likewise.  My next door neighbour at the moment is a Muslim.  He doesn't rape, beat, pillage or propose such things.  Obviously, according to you that makes him a bad Muslim but in reality he's an ordinary person who just wants to get along with everybody around him.

I'll ask you the standard question I ask every bigot.

How many Muslims do you know personally?  Well?   

Brian Ross wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 8:27pm:



I am not a bigot.





"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse....."
Koran 3.118

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98




Are all of those Koran quotes irrelevant, to the 'relationship' which every moslem is obligated [by their 'religion'] to foster towards 'disbelievers' ?

Quote:



Good luck with that.






re That other question.

I have, in my past, known moslems, eaten in their home.
[....but it is not possible to maintain a cordial relationship with a moslem, if you are so 'impudent' as to begin to ask pointed and informed questions about his religion]

But today, i do not know any moslems, personally.

Yadda wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 9:32pm:




Brian_Ross,


Bigot.





Crayons, i hope that you enjoyed.

Soren wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 8:51pm:


Do you think you've gotten the whole story without doing so, Soren?

Religion, unlike political ideology relies a great deal more about understanding and belief, than the written word.  Religious belief is based far more upon interpretation than anything else.  Be it Christianity or Islam or Hinduism or any other religious belief, you have a clerical class which has arisen to facilitate that.  However, if you want to know what the mainstream believes, you talk to the laity.

So, Soren, how many Muslims do you know personally?

BTW, I have known both old-time and neo-Nazis, Communists, fascists, racists and loads of different people who have followed many and varied political ideologies.  Some I've even liked, even if I disagreed with them.   I don't think the encounters have hurt me but they have definitely been educational.   

Lionel Edriess wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 9:37pm:


As usual, Lionel you read what you want into my views.

I don't believe there is such a thing as "Global Islamic aggression" because there is no central directing or controlling person or people within Islam to create it.   I believe there is "Islamic aggression", which can be attributed to individual or groups of Muslims.  However, that does not mean you can blame all Muslims for what other Muslims do.  That is guilt by association and is exactly what the Takfiri Islamists resort to when they attack (verbally/physically/in writing) "the West".

Like them, Lionel, you're boxing at a strawman representation of Islam as a homogeneous, monolithic entity. with all Muslims working together to bring about this sort of "aggression" you perceive.

This is exactly what anti-Semites do with Jews and Judaism.  You are basically persecuting people.  You're doing it not because of what they have done individually but because of your prejudices.

That is bigotry.

You see Islam as a challenge to your complacent existence because its followers are different and act differently to what you believe is the norm.   A norm which I have repeatedly challenged you to define but which you have steadfastly refused to do so because you realise to do so would mean that your prejudice would be exposed.