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What free and open public debate is about (Read 915 times)

Yadda

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What free and open public debate is about
May 2^nd, 2013 at 8:31am

What free and open public debate is about

How to prove in a public forum, that;
1/ you do not understand what free and open public debate is about [i.e. its purpose].

How to prove in a public forum, that;
2/ your argument has no merit.

How to prove in a public forum, that;
3/ you yourself are bereft of reason [reasoning].

+++

Chimp_Logic wrote on May 1^st, 2013 at 10:14pm:

Yadda

I cant really assist you

Your innate racist bigotry is matter for you and your therapist, remembering that anti psychotic drugs and cranial surgery can only do so much

good luck you freak clown maggot

chimp,

Many words in the English language have powerful meanings.

But you use such words in your posts, [it would seem to me] in a care-less and cavalier fashion.

e.g.
You use words like 'freedom, human rights and justice'.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360661579/14#14

But you seem to have little comprehension of the meaning of those words.

'freedom', appears to encompass your freedom, to verbally abuse those that do not agree with your opinions and worldview.
'human rights', appears to refer to some nebulous and undefined set of rights, which you would claim for yourself ?
And 'justice', could refer to some 'ideal' [in law], which would protect [the] 'rights', which you would claim to be entitled to ?

You castigate me in a post, using the phrase "Principle of Universality", and vaguely connect that phrase with powerful words like, 'moral' and, 'ethical'.
And you join my person [in this forum], to the actions and character of a person like Adolph Hitler.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360661579/16#16
But you then refuse to engage in any way, to explain how you yourself would define that phrase, "Principle of Universality".
And you refuse to explain [in this public forum] how that phrase, "Principle of Universality", could be seen to define your own motives or 'ideals' ?

You accuse me of being a bigot, and a racist.
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360661579/18#18
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1360661579/28#28
But in your use of such words, you do not demonstrate that you have any understanding of what those words actually mean.
You simply choose to use such 'evocative' [and powerful] words in your posts, as a means of verbally abusing me [for having the temerity to express a view, which does not agree/coincide with your own].

e.g.
A bigot, could be defined as;
A person who would feel justified in [verbally] abusing another person, for expressing an opinion that does not agree/coincide with their own opinions and worldview.

A racist, could be defined as;
Discrimination or antagonism expressed towards other persons, based upon race or ethnicity.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: What free and open public debate is about
Reply #1 - May 2^nd, 2013 at 8:34am

Free and open public debate [in an open public forum] should be used for, and is an opportunity to, argue for, or, against, a point of view, a worldview, or a strongly held opinion.

Within the 'structure' of 'public debate', we can bring facts and reasoning to our argument, and [we can bring facts and reasoning] to our counter arguments, in the debate.

WHAT DEBATE IS;
In the end, we ourselves [the actual participants in a debate] are merely 'players' who are presenting information, [our] reasoning, and an argument, to an 'audience' [and to an often silent and unseen 'audience'].

And, it is that silent and unseen 'audience', all those persons who will examine and read [or hear] those arguments [which are] presented, which/who, then will decide in their own hearts, which side [if any] of an argument has merit.

DEBATE IS NOT;
Merely presenting an [often unreasoned and 'empty'] opinion, within a forum.

DEBATE IS NOT;
Choosing to verbally abuse a person who dares to challenge your point of view or argument, by presenting a counter-argument, within the forum.

And using 'emotive' but 'empty' words, in presenting an opinion, 1/ does not often demonstrate debating skill, and 2/ does not often prove that your opinion has merit.

Using 'emotive' words to attack your opponent, but not his argument or position, simply proves to everyone who is observing, that you do not understand what the purpose of free and open debate is.

If you want to win an argument in a debate, you must present superior facts and superior reasoning - to the eyes [and/or ears] of those who will judge those arguments presented.

If you have a superior argument, then present it in debate, in your forum.

But merely abusing people who you disagree with, will not prove to anyone that your argument [or your 'philosophical' position] has merit.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: What free and open public debate is about Reply #2 - May 10^th, 2013 at 3:37pm Very scholarly Yadda (and I applaud it), but dare I ask: was it worth it?
Back to top	Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism. IP Logged

Yadda

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Re: What free and open public debate is about
Reply #3 - May 10^th, 2013 at 6:22pm

bogarde73 wrote on May 10^th, 2013 at 3:37pm:

Very scholarly Yadda (and I applaud it), but dare I ask: was it worth it?

bogarde73,

I am merely arguing that in an open public debate [in a forum like OzPol], we should allow others to present their [reasoned] arguments [....as well as just their empty opinion, if that is all that they wish to present].

And then others should use reason to judge the arguments [and opinion(s)] which they have presented.

In saying what i have, what was the cost to myself ?

I hope that you applaud the sentiment which i expressed.i
p.s.
I have nothing against people presenting 'empty' opinions [on any subject], in a forum like OzPol.

But if a person is going to present an 'empty' [unsupported] opinion, then why shouldn't others be allowed to challenge those opinion(s) ?

Of course, they should be allowed to [imo] - even if some will argue, that those who disagree with their opinion, are wrong to do so. Tongue

Are forums like this slowly dying?
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1365893107/5#5
Quote:

Open societies do not fear the opinions of fools.
....they rather, EXPOSE and laugh at folly!

In any free and open debate, if a 'position' is absurd, if an 'argument' is absurd,
...then the debater is [often] condemned to all, WITH HIS OWN WORDS.

And isn't the exposure of folly, and error, THE VERY FUNCTION, of free and open debate?

Free and open debate *is meant* to be a contest of ideas!
....where every folly is revealed.

And i would contend, that open debate is healthy, to all general freedoms in a society.

Whereas, lies are easily concealed in closed societies,
....*because* these closed societies are places where lies, and falsehood,
....ARE NEVER EXPOSED TO SCRUTINY, OR SPOKEN TRUTH.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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bogarde73

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Posts: 18443
Gender: male

Re: What free and open public debate is about
Reply #4 - May 11^th, 2013 at 4:07pm

I do agree with you absolutely. I was simply commenting on whether the target of your comment was worth the effort, given a propensity to descend into some kind of manic rage.
What I am not sure about is this constant query for links or facts from some people. I tend to argue from my own opinions formed out of a wide digestion of points of view. If I state my opinion, usually colourfully, people can take it or leave it. I'm not about to waste my time, I don't have it to waste, researching a presentation to back up my opinion.

Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42124	Re: What free and open public debate is about Reply #5 - May 14^th, 2013 at 5:59pm I've yet to see Yadda actually demonstrate what he claims he's talking about. I would suggest that debate is not: 1. Resorting to the use of crayons, special effects, excessive smilies, etc. 2. Displaying unreasoning bigotry/racism/hatred. 3. Trolling for mere effect.
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

The_Barnacle Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6205 Melbourne Gender:	Re: What free and open public debate is about Reply #6 - May 15^th, 2013 at 10:37pm Also Yadda, if you intend on making a point about something then you should try and make your posts halfway readable. You posts are so long and messy that I don't even bother with them any more and just skip over it on to the next post.
Back to top	The Right Wing only believe in free speech when they agree with what is being said. IP Logged

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