Australian Politics Forum - Most Muslims Want Sharia Law

Yadda

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #15 - May 9^th, 2013 at 11:48am

Adamant wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 10:35am:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 10:17am:

The only part of that article that had any relevance at all to the situation in the UK was:

Quote:

In the Panorama programme, Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor for the Northwest, emphasised that "most of the [courts] are absolutely fine but there are some clearly, like this one, who are putting women at risk"

The rest of the article is just a non-specific generalised rant about how evil islam is.

The article is based on a recent BBC Panorama programme you should try to watch it.

EDL - BBC Panorama - Secrets of Britain's Sharia Councils 29m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfgPcAhijac

i have not watched it yet.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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freediver

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #16 - May 9^th, 2013 at 12:58pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 8^th, 2013 at 10:45pm:

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2013 at 6:12pm:

Obviousy if you don't want Shariah law then you aren't actually a Muslim

Perhaps you can enlighten us by clarifying exactly what "want shariah law" actually means?

I don't think there is room here. There are many books full of it. I think they call them Koran and Hadiths. Check the wiki for some of the more interesting elements.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law Reply #17 - May 9^th, 2013 at 1:36pm Thats not the question FD. The question was what does "want shariah law" actually mean? Or are you going to keep pretending every single muslim's understanding of sharia is exactly the same?
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #18 - May 9^th, 2013 at 1:42pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 10:17am:

The only part of that article that had any relevance at all to the situation in the UK was:

Quote:

In the Panorama programme, Nazir Afzal, the chief crown prosecutor for the Northwest, emphasised that "most of the [courts] are absolutely fine but there are some clearly, like this one, who are putting women at risk"

The rest of the article is just a non-specific generalised rant about how evil islam is.

Any comments on the One law for all campaign to get rid of these discriminatory sharia courts in the UK gandalf?

www.onelawforall.org.uk

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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|dev|null

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #19 - May 9^th, 2013 at 2:02pm

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 12:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 8^th, 2013 at 10:45pm:

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2013 at 6:12pm:

Obviousy if you don't want Shariah law then you aren't actually a Muslim

Perhaps you can enlighten us by clarifying exactly what "want shariah law" actually means?

I don't think there is room here. There are many books full of it. I think they call them Koran and Hadiths. Check the wiki for some of the more interesting elements.

Perhaps you'd care to explain how Sharia law handles:

Contract Law
Regulation of the Electronic Spectrum
Anti-Discrimination Law
Insurance Law
Copyright Law
Building regulations
etc., etc.

If it is based purely on Koranic references?

The reality is, it doesn't. In the nations that have implemented Sharia they haven't abandoned those aspects of the law, they've modified them to implement Islamic principles but the legislation is often more advanced than what we have in Australia. Sharia is about a lot more than 14th century jurisprudence and advice.

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40774 Gender:	Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law Reply #20 - May 9^th, 2013 at 2:48pm how many people did mohammad murder ? or those he encouraged to murder n his behalf ?
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polite_gandalf

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #21 - May 9^th, 2013 at 2:49pm

The UK already has one law for all.

The sharia courts are merely an arbitration tribunal that operates under English law. Their primary function is to provide an avenue for out-of-court settlements - so as not to clog up the system. A sensible idea in my book.

Quote:

The MAT operates under Section 1 of the Arbitration Act which states that: “the parties should be free to agree how their disputes are resolved, subject only to such safeguards as are necessary in the public interest”.[3] As such it operates within the framework of English law and does not constitute a separate Islamic legal system. Under the Act they are deemed to be "arbitration tribunals".[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Arbitration_Tribunal

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40774 Gender:	Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law Reply #22 - May 9^th, 2013 at 3:04pm Sprintcyclist wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 2:48pm: how many people did mohammad murder ? or those he encouraged to murder n his behalf ? how many ?
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freediver

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #23 - May 9^th, 2013 at 7:13pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 1:36pm:

Thats not the question FD.

The question was what does "want shariah law" actually mean? Or are you going to keep pretending every single muslim's understanding of sharia is exactly the same?

Are you arguing over the definition of want, or the definition of shariah?

Quote:

Perhaps you'd care to explain how Sharia law handles:

Contract Law

Always assume the best on behalf of the Muslims involved.

Quote:

Anti-Discrimination Law

Women cannot be trusted and should be covered up so they do not entice men to rape them. Jews and Christians are second class citizens. Other religions are tolerated only for as long as they cannot be wiped out. Atheism doesn't even exist, so let's keep it that way.

Quote:

Building regulations

Non-Muslims are not allowed to build as high as Muslims.

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Yadda

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #24 - May 9^th, 2013 at 7:48pm

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 7:13pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 1:36pm:

Thats not the question FD.

The question was what does "want shariah law" actually mean? Or are you going to keep pretending every single muslim's understanding of sharia is exactly the same?

Are you arguing over the definition of want, or the definition of shariah?

The truth about ISLAM [and Sharia] is so simple. [to learn it, read the Koran, read the hadith]

But in those places where moslems do not have authority, sowing and nurturing confusion, and avoiding being pinned down to making direct definitions, and prolonging delays in 'coming to knowledge'......seem to be the main order of business.

Dictionary;
obfuscate = =
1 make unclear or unintelligible.
2 bewilder.

p.s.
ISLAM [and Sharia] seeks to establish the superiority of moslems, through the methodology of intimidation, violence and oppression.

What else do we need to know about ISLAM ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #25 - May 9^th, 2013 at 9:17pm

freediver wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 7:13pm:

Are you arguing over the definition of want, or the definition of shariah?

What you don't seem to appreciate is when muslims say "yeah, we want sharia law", that could mean about a thousand different things. Sharia includes simply performing the 5 prayers and all the other personal duties of a muslim. There are a range of views about whether or not it includes community laws - such as punishing adultery, robbery, etc. Some muslims might believe that sharia should rule over every aspect in the society - but I don't imagine many would. And even amongst those, there are an infinite number of views on how this should be implemented. But as someone pointed out, wherever sharia has been implemented, sharia has only ever been a compliment to the existing law of the land. So how much should sharia cover? What specific laws should be sharia and which not? These are all questions that are not being adequately addressed by blanket statements about the muslim bogeyman threatening society with sharia. And they certainly weren't addressed in the PEW survey that has been referenced.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #26 - May 9^th, 2013 at 9:30pm

Quote:

What you don't seem to appreciate is when muslims say "yeah, we want sharia law", that could mean about a thousand different things. Sharia includes simply performing the 5 prayers and all the other personal duties of a muslim.

I really don't think that is what any of the survey respondents meant. The question would not even make sense in that context.

Quote:

But as someone pointed out, wherever sharia has been implemented, sharia has only ever been a compliment to the existing law of the land.

Does that go all the way back to Muhammed? Who is this 'someone'?

Quote:

Some muslims might believe that sharia should rule over every aspect in the society - but I don't imagine many would. And even amongst those, there are an infinite number of views on how this should be implemented. But as someone pointed out, wherever sharia has been implemented, sharia has only ever been a compliment to the existing law of the land. So how much should sharia cover? What specific laws should be sharia and which not? These are all questions that are not being adequately addressed by blanket statements about the muslim bogeyman threatening society with sharia. And they certainly weren't addressed in the PEW survey that has been referenced.

You could say the exact same thing about Nazism. That would not make Nazism any more benign. You cannot deny people freedom and human rights "just a little bit". That is not how it works.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42541	Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law Reply #27 - May 9^th, 2013 at 9:36pm Sprintcyclist wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 2:48pm: how many people did mohammad murder ? or those he encouraged to murder n his behalf ? Happened 1400 years ago. Time you got over it, methinks.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49458 At my desk.	Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law Reply #28 - May 9^th, 2013 at 9:40pm Brian, everyone else will get over it after Muslims get over it, not before. Would you stand at the gates of auschwitz and tell the Jews to get over it while they were being lead to the chambers? Why do you always fall back on these empty-headed platitudes that make no sense?
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Yadda

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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #29 - May 9^th, 2013 at 9:49pm

Brian Ross wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 9:36pm:

Sprintcyclist wrote on May 9^th, 2013 at 2:48pm:

how many people did mohammad murder ?
or those he encouraged to murder n his behalf ?

Happened 1400 years ago.

Time you got over it, methinks.

Brian_Ross,

How many people did Mohammedans [worldwide] murder last week, and even today ?

How many people were murdered today, by those Mohammedans who were encouraged to murder, on behalf of ISLAM ?

THE RELIGION OF PEACE

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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