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Most Muslims Want Sharia Law (Read 34828 times)
polite_gandalf
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #30 - May 9th, 2013 at 9:55pm
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 9:30pm:
You could say the exact same thing about Nazism. That would not make Nazism any more benign. You cannot deny people freedom and human rights "just a little bit". That is not how it works.


Resorting to Godwin's law are we?

I like the assumption that sharia is automatically deemed as denying freedom and human rights. An assumption which becomes a little bit tricky when its revealed that in the same survey majorities of muslims supported both democracy and freedom of religion.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #31 - May 9th, 2013 at 10:11pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 9:55pm:
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 9:30pm:
You could say the exact same thing about Nazism. That would not make Nazism any more benign. You cannot deny people freedom and human rights "just a little bit". That is not how it works.


Resorting to Godwin's law are we?

I like the assumption that sharia is automatically deemed as denying freedom and human rights.

An assumption which becomes a little bit tricky when its revealed that in the same survey majorities of muslims supported both democracy and freedom of religion.




gandalf,

Can you prove that Sharia does protect the freedom and human rights, of persons who are deemed to be 'disbelievers' ?

Because as i understand it, ISLAMIC law makes it unlawful for me to choose my religion - if the religion i choose, is not ISLAM.

???




"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85


"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #32 - May 9th, 2013 at 10:30pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 9:55pm:
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 9:30pm:
You could say the exact same thing about Nazism. That would not make Nazism any more benign. You cannot deny people freedom and human rights "just a little bit". That is not how it works.


Resorting to Godwin's law are we?


Actually no. I am trying to demonstrate a point. However I did start a thread comparing Islam and Nazism if you are interested.

Quote:
I like the assumption that sharia is automatically deemed as denying freedom and human rights.


It is not an assumption. Nor is it automatic. It comes from asking many Muslims about it.

Quote:
An assumption which becomes a little bit tricky when its revealed that in the same survey majorities of muslims supported both democracy and freedom of religion.


So does Abu. He seemed oblivious to the hypocrisy. I suspect he didn't actually know what freedom and democracy mean. Either that or it was just another case of the truth being the first victim of his century old war with the west. But he did know a lot about shariah law.
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #33 - May 9th, 2013 at 10:41pm
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 10:30pm:
from asking many Muslims about it.


Grin Grin Grin
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Emma
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #34 - May 10th, 2013 at 1:17am
 


'As such it operates within the framework of English law and does not constitute a separate Islamic legal system.' 

That sounds like a rather blatant attempt at painting this practice .. (What are the UK Law officers THINKING..?? Roll Eyes )  as harmless... even  helpful... 

Grin Grin Grin Grin

Truly...  when you say  ' Most Muslims Want Sharia Law'...
you are talking about the MEN.

Male Muslims want it...

Women in Islam have no opinion worth hearing.

For that reason alone,.. it is shameful for any non- Muslim country to allow ANY aspect of SHARIA LAW in to the COMMON LAW.

How bizarre how bizarre

Hey keep it in the Casbah.! Cool
Angry
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #35 - May 10th, 2013 at 11:11am
 
Emma wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Truly...  when you say  ' Most Muslims Want Sharia Law'...
you are talking about the MEN.

Male Muslims want it...


Women in Islam have no opinion worth hearing.


i
We moslems must obey local laws - NOT
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1352165717/0#0
Quote:

ISLAMIC law is almost always in conflict with Western secular states, in the areas of family law, in inheritance law, in the societal position of women, and the position in law of those who are not moslem.






e.g.
ISLAMIC law states that;

Point of difference #1,
A non-moslem man may not lawfully marry a moslem woman.

A moslem woman may not lawfully marry a non-moslem man.            Koran 2.221



Point of difference #2,
And moslem parents may lawfully kill their [disobedient] children.                  "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).


Point of difference #3,
A married woman must always make herself sexually available to her husband.

"Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will; but do some good act for your souls beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him (in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who believe."
Koran 2.223

Dictionary;
tilth = = cultivation of land; tillage.





Point of difference #4,
A husband may take up to 4 wives.            Koran 4.3





Point of difference #5,
A moslem man may beat his disobedient wife.          Koran 4.034     "beat them (lightly)" is often quoted.    n.b. The 'clarifying' insertion, "(lightly)", DOES NOT APPEAR IN THE ARABIC, IN THE KORAN.     And one can only assume that this 'insertion' has been added in some English translations of the Koran - so as to mislead those readers of the English translation of the Koran.          Google; Taqiyya





Point of difference #6,
A non-moslem man may not give evidence in a court of law, against a moslem.   [....because such a circumstance, if permitted would upset the natural order of things; Being, that the 'guided' moslem, is [always] an innocent person before the law. Kufar, are the guilty people. Always.]






Point of difference #7,
A married moslem woman who claims [makes the accusation in a court] that she has been raped [by a 'stranger(s)'], must provide 4 male witnesses to the rape [to substaniate her accusation], or she herself may face the punishment of stoning, for her acknowledged/admitted adultery [i.e. her sex out of marraige].





Point of difference #8,
If a non-moslem kills a moslem, ISLAMIC law states that the non-moslem must be executed.
But a moslem must not be punished in law equally, whenever a moslem kills a non-moslem.    Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 283:    Bukhari Hadith Volume 9, Book 83, Number 50:






Point of difference #9,
Under ISLAMIC inheritance law any daughter receives 1/2 the entitlement of any male heir.            Koran 4.11
e.g.
Where there is a son, and a daughter, to inherit an estate.
The estate is divided into 3 parts.
The son receives 2 parts.
The daughter receives 1 part.






I am sure that there are even more examples, of where secular laws [in host nations], would be in conflict with ISLAMIC law, but those above are enough to demonstrate the chasm in equity, that exists between ISLAMIC laws, and the tolerance and equality in law, that is found in the laws of most Western jurisdictions.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #36 - May 10th, 2013 at 7:26pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 10:41pm:
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 10:30pm:
from asking many Muslims about it.


Grin Grin Grin


Yes, it is rather amusing, isn't it?

I wonder if he's asked them face to face or merely through internet forums?

I also wonder why, if he's spoke to so many, he continually only cites a few?

It's interesting that FD just doesn't detect the irony of his own comments.   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #37 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:21pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 11:11am:
Emma wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Truly...  when you say  ' Most Muslims Want Sharia Law'...
you are talking about the MEN.

Male Muslims want it...


Women in Islam have no opinion worth hearing.




We moslems must obey local laws - NOT


Amongst Yada's crayon scrawlings I spotted this.

Perhaps he'd care to explain Surat An-Nisā' 4:59 ?
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Yadda
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #38 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:23pm
 
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 10:30pm:

Quote:
I like the assumption that sharia is automatically deemed as denying freedom and human rights.


It is not an assumption. Nor is it automatic. It comes from asking many Muslims about it.




FD,

Those persons who you were communicating with, prolly were not real moslems.

They were prolly just,
moslem impersonators
.

You know, people with 'extreme views', who referred to themselves as moslems.

But clearly, were not real moslems.       Tongue


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #39 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:34pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 10:30pm:

Quote:
I like the assumption that sharia is automatically deemed as denying freedom and human rights.


It is not an assumption. Nor is it automatic. It comes from asking many Muslims about it.




FD,

Those persons who you were communicating with, prolly were not real moslems.

They were prolly just,
moslem impersonators
.

You know, people with 'extreme views', who referred to themselves as moslems.

But clearly, were not real moslems.       Tongue




Yes, Yadda, I'm sure people run around impersonating Muslims every day...    Roll Eyes

Whom are you to judge who is a real Muslim or not?   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #40 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:34pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:21pm:
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 11:11am:
Emma wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Truly...  when you say  ' Most Muslims Want Sharia Law'...
you are talking about the MEN.

Male Muslims want it...


Women in Islam have no opinion worth hearing.




We moslems must obey local laws - NOT


Amongst Yada's crayon scrawlings I spotted this.

Perhaps he'd care to explain Surat An-Nisā' 4:59 ?






"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."
Koran 4:59



That means, obey the moslem clerics.    ".....those charged with authority among you"



Like this too....

"Believers, obey Allah, and obey the Messenger! Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the Cause of Allah, He will not pardon. Do not falter; become faint-hearted, or weak-kneed, crying for peace. You have the upper hand.
Koran 47.33-35


The moslem clerics, today, stand in the place of Mohammed.


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #41 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:38pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:21pm:
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 11:11am:
Emma wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Truly...  when you say  ' Most Muslims Want Sharia Law'...
you are talking about the MEN.

Male Muslims want it...


Women in Islam have no opinion worth hearing.




We moslems must obey local laws - NOT


Amongst Yada's crayon scrawlings I spotted this.

Perhaps he'd care to explain Surat An-Nisā' 4:59 ?






"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."
Koran 4:59




That ref, is not on this page.

Link ?



Like to what?  You quoted it.  Now, explain the contradiction between that verse and what you claimed about Muslims.  Are you able even to detect the contradiction?   Roll Eyes
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Yadda
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #42 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:43pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:34pm:
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:23pm:
freediver wrote on May 9th, 2013 at 10:30pm:

Quote:
I like the assumption that sharia is automatically deemed as denying freedom and human rights.


It is not an assumption. Nor is it automatic. It comes from asking many Muslims about it.




FD,

Those persons who you were communicating with, prolly were not real moslems.

They were prolly just,
moslem impersonators
.

You know, people with 'extreme views', who referred to themselves as moslems.

But clearly, were not real moslems.       Tongue




Yes, Yadda, I'm sure people run around impersonating Muslims every day...    Roll Eyes

Whom are you to judge who is a real Muslim or not?   Roll Eyes





Brian_Ross,

If someone declares that he is a moslem, i take him at his word [....on at least that!].




It is from among moslems themselves, that the claim often arises, that 'moslem extremists' are not real moslems.

It is not me, who is saying that someone who declares that he is a moslem, is not!


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #43 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:53pm
 
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:34pm:
Brian Ross wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 8:21pm:
Yadda wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 11:11am:
Emma wrote on May 10th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Truly...  when you say  ' Most Muslims Want Sharia Law'...
you are talking about the MEN.

Male Muslims want it...


Women in Islam have no opinion worth hearing.




We moslems must obey local laws - NOT


Amongst Yada's crayon scrawlings I spotted this.

Perhaps he'd care to explain Surat An-Nisā' 4:59 ?






"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination."
Koran 4:59



That means, obey the moslem clerics.    ".....those charged with authority among you"






The problem for non-moslem communities comes, when moslem clerics declare one thing [relating to ISLAM's relationship to non-moslems], to the broader non-moslem community,
.....but then will say something completely different, to a moslem audience, within the mosque [where moslems speak among themselves].

Deceit on the part of the moslem community, plain and simple.




Proof ???

Google YouTube;
undercover mosque



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Emma
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Re: Most Muslims Want Sharia Law
Reply #44 - May 10th, 2013 at 10:43pm
 
Do you see it??

Men praise Allah 'cos???  they love the power over others...
Women praise Allah...else they be whipped imprisoned and killed. .
IS THIS REALLY A 'law'..??  OR A FOUL CORRUPTION.?

iS THIS WHAT ALLAH REQUIRES OF WOMEN?? 


I noticed, tho some chose to use my words...  NO ONE addressed WHAT i SAID. 

No surprise..??  Nope 

It is so accepted by you faithful of Allah , that women are merely wombs to deliver sons.. not actual thinking human beings...  at all... and so their words are worthless, except where they speak to family children and Allah. Except where it relates to food and bodily comforts.

You are not MEN.


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« Last Edit: May 10th, 2013 at 10:53pm by Emma »  

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