Australian Politics Forum - US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2

greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #120 - May 6^th, 2013 at 7:46am

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:00pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 12:40pm:

Seems they are busy modifying now

Quote:

If you are a member of the general public:

The fact that you are seeing this page indicates that the website you just visited is either experiencing problems, or is undergoing routine maintenance.

If you would like to let the administrators of this website know that you've seen this page instead of the page you expected, you should send them e-mail. In general, mail sent to the name "webmaster" and directed to the website's domain should reach the appropriate person.

For example, if you experienced problems while visiting www.example.com, you should send e-mail to "webmaster@example.com".

For information on Red Hat Enterprise Linux, please visit the Red Hat, Inc. website. The documentation for Red Hat Enterprise Linux is available on the Red Hat, Inc. website.

http://www.crickett.com/

Yes, theyvvre modifying the site, because having to shut the site down because the server is getting an order of magnitude more hits then it can handle totally doesn't make sense...

Taking them an awful long time to rectify the problem.

http://www.crickett.com/

Seems like they realise they've done the wrong thing and have subsequently run for cover.

"When contacted by ABCNews.com, a representative for Keystone Sporting Arms, located in Milton, Pa., said that the company is not answering questions."

http://www.kugn.com/common/more.php?m=58&ts=1367522402&article=DAA2B145B33D11E28...

Funny that. Can't expect too much from irresponsible gun nuts though.

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Postmodern Trendoid III

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #121 - May 6^th, 2013 at 9:14am

greggerypeccary wrote on May 5^th, 2013 at 11:44pm:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 5^th, 2013 at 5:51pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 5^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

Chard wrote on May 5^th, 2013 at 3:19pm:

You could try and prove me wrong ...

Already ticked that box.

You claimed that "The responsibility for this begins and ends with the kids parents. "

However, you were quickly shown that the responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

The rest has just been icing on the cake.

Logic fallacies, Peccy. You're engaging in circular reasoning and begging the question. Stating the conclusion in your premise is not an argument!

How's that law degree going for ya?

Chard has been shown up (again) as a fool.

His "argument" has been destroyed.

Life is good.

The gun manufacturer did nothing illegal, and the parents purchasing the gun did it legally.
This is the same type of 'reasoning' you use in the asylum seeker issue. You appeal to the law and block out all other considerations to the topic. Now you're ignoring the legalities here and appealing to your personal morals. Since you palm off all other issues surrounding asylum seekers with "it's not against the law to claim asylum", the simple retort here is "it's not against the law to manufacture or purchase the gun in question."
Suck it up.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #122 - May 6^th, 2013 at 9:17am

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 9:14am:

The gun manufacturer did nothing illegal, and the parents purchasing the gun did it legally.

I've never suggested anything to the contrary.

What I've said is, responsibility for this tragedy starts with the gun manufacturer and ends with the parents.

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Postmodern Trendoid III Gold Member Offline Posts: 10266 Gender:	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #123 - May 6^th, 2013 at 9:22am Until you take other people's views on the asylum issue seriously, don't expect any leeway here.
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Sir Spot of Borg Gold Member Offline WE ARE BORG Posts: 26509 Australia	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #124 - May 6^th, 2013 at 9:30am Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 9:22am: Until you take other people's views on the asylum issue seriously, don't expect any leeway here. It has absolutely nothing to do with asylum seekers SOB
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FriYAY

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #125 - May 6^th, 2013 at 10:22am

greggerypeccary wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 11:24am:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 6:51pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:44pm:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:26pm:

Is it Cricket's responsibility to supervise that child?

No. It's Cricket's responsibility to not manufacture guns for children.

The responsibility for this most certainly begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

Only they aren't marketing guns to kids, they're manufacuring and marketing towards parents that want to teach their children how to shoot or otherwise engage them in shooting sports. It's still the responsibility of the parent to provide and supervise a safe environment for doing that. It's not the manufacturer's fault the child's parents we operating a product in an unsafe mannet.

The manufacturer is making guns specifically for kids.

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2011/12/06/245643_01_crick...

It's the manufacturer's responsibility to not make guns for children.

You seem to be having trouble understanding this simple point.

The responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

Can a 5 year old buy that gun?

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Dsmithy70

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #126 - May 6^th, 2013 at 10:35am

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Can a 5 year old buy that gun?

No

But after 9 pages of back & forth.

The question should have possibly been framed better.

Is it moral to make & market guns for very small children?

Most rifles can be used by kids over 10 anyway, why do we need extra small guns for children under that age?

But anyhoo, we've had some fun & old Chard has been able to abuse foreigners who cant understand his countries culture of gloried death & violence.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #127 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:02am

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Can a 5 year old buy that gun?

Nope.

5 year olds can't enter an adult shop and purchase sex toys either.

In that case, I assume you'd have no problem with a company manufacturing small vibrators, in a bright pink colour, and calling them "My First Vibrator".

They could have pictures of a cute little animal on the box - maybe a beaver.

It's legal, and kids can't enter the shops to buy them, so it's all good isn't it? You'd have no problem with a company who manufactured such an item and then sold them to the parents.

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FriYAY

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #128 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:27am

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:35am:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Can a 5 year old buy that gun?

No

But after 9 pages of back & forth.

The question should have possibly been framed better.

Is it moral to make & market guns for very small children?

Most rifles can be used by kids over 10 anyway, why do we need extra small guns for children under that age?

But anyhoo, we've had some fun & old Chard has been able to abuse foreigners who cant understand his countries culture of gloried death & violence.

No, I don’t think marketing guns at very small children is “morally” right. I guess in the US many see it as no different to little pink fishing rods. But still – the parent has to buy it, give it to the child and take responsibility in regards to the firearms safe storage and use.

Again, marketing, sales and profit.

The manufacture may need to look at the “morals” of it, but while it is legal I can’t see how the responsibility is theirs, totally rests with the purchaser.

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FriYAY

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #129 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:32am

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Can a 5 year old buy that gun?

Nope.

5 year olds can't enter an adult shop and purchase sex toys either.

In that case, I assume you'd have no problem with a company manufacturing small vibrators, in a bright pink colour, and calling them "My First Vibrator".

They could have pictures of a cute little animal on the box - maybe a beaver.

It's legal, and kids can't enter the shops to buy them, so it's all good isn't it? You'd have no problem with a company who manufactured such an item and then sold them to the parents.

Pathetic analogy.

As for the highlighted bit, manufacturers can’t just “sell” things, people have to “buy” them. You do understand that I hope.

Addressed nothing I said, go stamp your angry widdle feet elsewhere.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #130 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:45am

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:02am:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 10:22am:

Can a 5 year old buy that gun?

Nope.

5 year olds can't enter an adult shop and purchase sex toys either.

In that case, I assume you'd have no problem with a company manufacturing small vibrators, in a bright pink colour, and calling them "My First Vibrator".

They could have pictures of a cute little animal on the box - maybe a beaver.

It's legal, and kids can't enter the shops to buy them, so it's all good isn't it? You'd have no problem with a company who manufactured such an item and then sold them to the parents.

Pathetic analogy.

No, it was a very good one actually.

So, you'd have no problem with a company that manufactured "My First Vibrator"?

Perfectly legal. Kids can't buy them.

So ...

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Chard

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #131 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:48am

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 7:38am:

Chard wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 4:32am:

How about you try actuaply responding to my arguments ...

Already ticked that box.

You claimed that "The responsibility for this begins and ends with the kids parents. "

However, you were quickly shown that the responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

Better luck next time.

Shown where? All you've done is repeat the same claim and all you've offered as a counter-argument is arbitrary morals. How about you cease being a pussy and actually make a rational counter-argument.

And no, saying "it just is" doesn't qualify.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #132 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:50am

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:32am:

As for the highlighted bit, manufacturers can’t just “sell” things, people have to “buy” them. You do understand that I hope.

This is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've seen in this forum ... ever!

When a sales transaction takes place, there are two parties: the buyer, and the seller. You do understand that I hope.

Seriously, this place gets dumber by the day Roll Eyes

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Annie Anthrax

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #133 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:50am

Chard wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 2:08am:

Demotivational Posters: For when you can't actually refute an argument, post a decade old meme!

Ok, lets look at the facts here. The mother of the children left a five-year old to "play" with an unsecured rifle while she cleaned the house. She also either failed to clear the rifle beforehand or she left unsecured ammunition where he son could find it. So right off the bat she commited the following errors,

1. She left an unsecured firearm where children could get access to it.

2. She knowingly allowed a five year old to "play" with an actual firearm.

3. She failed to either teach proper gun safety to that child despite living in a household with firearms in it.

4. She failed to properly clear the weapon and/or had unsecured ammo around the home.

Not a single bit of that is the fault of Cricket, the rifle's manufacturer. Now keep in mind that in the US there at tens of thousands of "youth" rifles purchased by parents to teach there children to shoot. If this is so dangerous then why am Iam not seeing more stories like the OP?

Oh, right, because Stephanie Sparks is an idiot who let a five year old "play" with a loaded firearm unsupervised while she was busy cleaning, her two year old died because of it, and you goulish f*ckwits are to busy screaming "guns are bad" to understand that had Stephanie Sparks not left a five year old alone with a gun that this incident wouldn't have happened.

There are degrees of fault. I don't think anyone is suggesting the parents are not to blame - they are. Primarily for buying a 5 year old a gun in the first place, but also for all the reasons you suggest.

It's an absolute tragedy - I'm sure in retrospect, the parents wish they'd never bought the gun for their son. They have to live with that and their poor little boy has to live with the nightmarish images of killing his sister.

The thing is, your entire culture needs to change in regards to its views on gun ownership. It cannot be guaranteed that all (or even most) gun owners will use or store their weapons responsibly. Having such a critically dangerous 'right' as the one to gun ownership is hazardous to your citizenry.

Irresponsible people are everywhere. Until your regulations change, more children will die. I can't recall a single incident in Australia where a child has accidentally shot another child - I'm not saying it hasn't happened...just that it's rare enough for me not to have heard of a single case. Doesn't that sound like a better way to live?

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Chard

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #134 - May 6^th, 2013 at 11:51am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 9:30am:

Postmodern Trendoid III wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 9:22am:

Until you take other people's views on the asylum issue seriously, don't expect any leeway here.

It has absolutely nothing to do with asylum seekers

SOB

He's pointing out Greg's hypocrisy, you smacking idiot.

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Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

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