Australian Politics Forum - US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2

Chard

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #150 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:00pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:53pm:

Chard wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:42pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:16pm:

However, the company have to shoulder some of the blame for designing and manufacturing a gun specifically for children.

Still waiting for you to give an actual reason for that idea that isn't based on arbitrary morals

What would you like it based on then?

How about something more objective than whatever arbitrary moral standard you subscribe to. Hell, I gave two perfectly good objective standards earier and ivm begining to think the only reason you rejected them is because they don't agree with your argument.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #151 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:01pm

Chard wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:42pm:

For something that isn't designed to kill cars manage to kill and injure more people in the US than firearms.

Yes, I'm aware of that.

Nobody denies the fact that car accidents can and do kill people.

If I covered your body in enough paper cuts, you'd probably end up bleeding to death too.

Unfortunately, children have been known to drown in nappy buckets.

Cars, paper, and nappy buckets, however, were not designed to kill.

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Chard Gold Member Offline Mein Führer! I can walk! Posts: 1077 Alabama, USA Gender:	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #152 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:05pm greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:01pm: Cars, paper, and nappy buckets, however, were not designed to kill. Doesn't matter what the intended purpose is. To say otherwise ignores the fact at 1/3 of my coutry's population manages to safely own and operate firearms.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 137758 Gender:	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #153 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:16pm Chard wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:05pm: greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:01pm: Cars, paper, and nappy buckets, however, were not designed to kill. Doesn't matter what the intended purpose is. To you, no. We've established that. To others, yes.
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FriYAY

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #154 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:19pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:16pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

How does any of that absolve the parents of their responsibility once the item is purchased (in this case a gun)?

It doesn't.

I've never said that the parents aren't partially to blame for this tragedy. They clearly are. They're absolute idiots.

Chard stated: "The responsibility for this begins and ends with the kids parents."

I say: "The responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents."

I'm not letting the parents off at all.

However, the company have to shoulder some of the blame for designing and manufacturing a gun specifically for children.

I think it is inappropriate that a gun is designed for and marketed to children.

But it isn’t illegal to do so, no blame, perhaps some shame.

However it still has to be purchased and once purchased the buyer is responsible for the safe use and storage of the weapon.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #155 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:22pm

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:16pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

How does any of that absolve the parents of their responsibility once the item is purchased (in this case a gun)?

It doesn't.

I've never said that the parents aren't partially to blame for this tragedy. They clearly are. They're absolute idiots.

Chard stated: "The responsibility for this begins and ends with the kids parents."

I say: "The responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents."

I'm not letting the parents off at all.

However, the company have to shoulder some of the blame for designing and manufacturing a gun specifically for children.

I think it is inappropriate that a gun is designed for and marketed to children.

But it isn’t illegal to do so, no blame, perhaps some shame.

However it still has to be purchased and once purchased the buyer is responsible for the safe use and storage of the weapon.

Yep. Agreed.

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FriYAY

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #156 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:24pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:16pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

How does any of that absolve the parents of their responsibility once the item is purchased (in this case a gun)?

It doesn't.

I've never said that the parents aren't partially to blame for this tragedy. They clearly are. They're absolute idiots.

Chard stated: "The responsibility for this begins and ends with the kids parents."

I say: "The responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents."

I'm not letting the parents off at all.

However, the company have to shoulder some of the blame for designing and manufacturing a gun specifically for children.

I think it is inappropriate that a gun is designed for and marketed to children.

But it isn’t illegal to do so, no blame, perhaps some shame.

However it still has to be purchased and once purchased the buyer is responsible for the safe use and storage of the weapon.

Yep. Agreed.

OK…..we’ll have to find something else to argue about.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #157 - May 6^th, 2013 at 2:29pm

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:24pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:22pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 1:16pm:

FriYAY wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 11:59am:

How does any of that absolve the parents of their responsibility once the item is purchased (in this case a gun)?

It doesn't.

I've never said that the parents aren't partially to blame for this tragedy. They clearly are. They're absolute idiots.

Chard stated: "The responsibility for this begins and ends with the kids parents."

I say: "The responsibility for this begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents."

I'm not letting the parents off at all.

However, the company have to shoulder some of the blame for designing and manufacturing a gun specifically for children.

I think it is inappropriate that a gun is designed for and marketed to children.

But it isn’t illegal to do so, no blame, perhaps some shame.

However it still has to be purchased and once purchased the buyer is responsible for the safe use and storage of the weapon.

Yep. Agreed.

OK…..we’ll have to find something else to argue about.

No, we won't!!!

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Chard

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #158 - May 7^th, 2013 at 5:03am

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Chard wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:05pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 6^th, 2013 at 2:01pm:

Cars, paper, and nappy buckets, however, were not designed to kill.

Doesn't matter what the intended purpose is.

To you, no. We've established that.

To others, yes.

Again you are ignoring the fact that 100,000,000 registered gun owners in the US own and operate firearms in a safe and responsible manner. All this about guns being somehow inherently different from any other product because of designed use is a bullshit emotional appeal, Greg.

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JC Denton

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Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #159 - May 8^th, 2013 at 4:52pm

what about people who use guns to shoot targets. isnt a tool's purpose ultimately subjective regardless of what its original (by the first person who created it) intended purpose was.

knives were probably originally designed to kill too.

i think the biggest problem with the gun control debate is the lack of good data on both sides. the actual empirical record (WHICH IS WHAT ALL DEBATE SHOULD BE BASED ON) is really spotty at best. its hard to make policy prescriptions when you've got no real, good, hard data actually informing the discussion. otherwise, all you have shonky NRA arguments about impending tyranny and hysterical emotional responses to tragic black swan events.

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« Last Edit: May 8^th, 2013 at 4:57pm by JC Denton »

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