Australian Politics Forum - US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #30 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 6:51pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:44pm:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:26pm:

Is it Cricket's responsibility to supervise that child?

No. It's Cricket's responsibility to not manufacture guns for children.

The responsibility for this most certainly begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

Only they aren't marketing guns to kids, they're manufacuring and marketing towards parents that want to teach their children how to shoot or otherwise engage them in shooting sports. It's still the responsibility of the parent to provide and supervise a safe environment for doing that. It's not the manufacturer's fault the child's parents we operating a product in an unsafe mannet.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #31 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:04pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 6:13pm:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:29pm:

What we need is comprehensive manditory firearms training given by certified instructors as part pf the process for purchasing firearms.

Are you serious????

Apparently its communism or some such crap if you have to wait a few days to check if your not a smacking psychopath.

By all means, pleease quotewhere I've ever saud mental health screenings would be communist. Better yer, explain your logic in how you got that from me stating the need for more thorough standards for being able to purchade a firearm, yiu slackwit.

Quote:

What would the NRA make of such a suggestion.

They'd be against. It's one of the many gripes I have with the NRA. Oh, wait, you're being a dishonest shitbird again and you're trying to insinuate that because I'm a member of the NRA that I must agree with all pocies and actions that organization has.

Quote:

y god man what are you, a bloody LIBERAL?

Your mother's a liberal. I'm a conservative.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Peter Freedman

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5275
Wellington
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #32 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:13pm

Whenever Chard becomes abusive, which is most of the time, you know it is out of desperation.

The parents are the end of the chain. Before them come the stores that sell the guns, the advertising agencies that market them and the manufacturers.

Throw in the politicians that allow these weapons to be sold, the nut jobs of the NRA and all Americans who believe a constitution written over 200 years ago envisaged five-year-olds bearing arms.

Back to top

God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #33 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:19pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:44pm:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:26pm:

Is it Cricket's responsibility to supervise that child?

No. It's Cricket's responsibility to not manufacture guns for children.

The responsibility for this most certainly begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

That would be commonsense greggery - something that doesn't seem to exist on Planet America.

Only on Planet America can someone apparently claim with a straight face that a company that markets kiiling machines specifically for children - obviously knowing that stupid parents who take no responsibility for their children's safety will contribute a large proportion of their profits - have completely clean hands when one of their customers inevitably dies.

And by the way Chard, no one is denying the parents aren't responsible too. You seem to be running a strawman there. There are obviously multiple responsible parties here - which includes the parents and company that sold them.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

Dsmithy70

Gold Member

Offline

ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #34 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:22pm

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:04pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 6:13pm:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:29pm:

What we need is comprehensive manditory firearms training given by certified instructors as part pf the process for purchasing firearms.

Are you serious????

Apparently its communism or some such crap if you have to wait a few days to check if your not a smacking psychopath.

By all means, pleease quotewhere I've ever saud mental health screenings would be communist. Better yer, explain your logic in how you got that from me stating the need for more thorough standards for being able to purchade a firearm, yiu slackwit.

Quote:

What would the NRA make of such a suggestion.

They'd be against. It's one of the many gripes I have with the NRA. Oh, wait, you're being a dishonest shitbird again and you're trying to insinuate that because I'm a member of the NRA that I must agree with all pocies and actions that organization has.

Quote:

y god man what are you, a bloody LIBERAL?

Your mother's a liberal. I'm a conservative.

It was tongue in cheek, sarcasm if you will.

For you to even suggest such a reasonable position means you actually think rather than just regurgitating the numpties rhetoric.

Posting on an Aussie site means you need to realise sometimes when we take the piss we are actually agreeing/complimenting

Back to top

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #35 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:59pm

Peter Freedman wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:13pm:

Whenever Chard becomes abusive, which is most of the time, you know it is out of desperation.

No, it's exasperation at having to deal with terminally rishonest assholes.

Quote:

The parents are the end of the chain. Before them come the stores that sell the guns, the advertising agencies that market them and the manufacturers.

By that absurd logic car kanufacturers are partially responsible for automobile accidents that happen entirely due to operator error.

Quote:

Throw in the politicians that allow these weapons to be sold, the nut jobs of the NRA and all Americans who believe a constitution written over 200 years ago envisaged five-year-olds bearing arms.

They also didn't envisage parents stupid enough to leave their children unsuprrvised with a loaded firearm.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #36 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 8:08pm

polite_gandalf wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 7:19pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:44pm:

Chard wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 5:26pm:

Is it Cricket's responsibility to supervise that child?

No. It's Cricket's responsibility to not manufacture guns for children.

The responsibility for this most certainly begins with the manufacturer, and ends with the parents.

That would be commonsense greggery - something that doesn't seem to exist on Planet America.

Only on Planet America can someone apparently claim with a straight face that a company that markets kiiling machines specifically for children - obviously knowing that stupid parents who take no responsibility for their children's safety will contribute a large proportion of their profits - have completely clean hands when one of their customers inevitably dies.

See my previous statement about car manufacturers and unsafe operators. It's nit the goddamn manufacturers fault if you choose to operation their product in an unsafe manner.

Quote:

And by the way Chard, no one is denying the parents aren't responsible too. You seem to be running a strawman there. There are obviously multiple responsible parties here - which includes the parents and company that sold them.

Bullshit. You'e trying to claim that the manufacturer is to blame when someone operates their product in an unsafe manner. Every goddamn firearm sold commercially in the US has watnings against what the parents did in the owners manual, if you choose to ignore the warning telling you to not allow children to use a firearm unsupervised then that is your fault. You would be the party making the decision to ignore the warning, not the manufacturer.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Peter Freedman

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5275
Wellington
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #37 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 9:11pm

Chard, by "rishonest" (sic) you mean anyone who dares disagree with you.

A car manufacturer would be responsible only if the car had a safety fault that contributed to the accident. A car is not designed to kill, a gun is. Your argument is so old and totally absurd.

A gun should never be put in the hands of a child. Anyone who is a part of that appalling situation must share part of the guilt.

Back to top

God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

IP Logged

hawil

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 1345

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #38 - May 3^rd, 2013 at 9:21pm

freediver wrote on May 2^nd, 2013 at 7:35pm:

Not an accident in my opinion. This is negligence. WTF are the yanks doing making guns specifically for children?

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/us-boy-5-accidentally-shoots-and-kills-sister-2/story-fndir2ev-1226633510209

A FIVE-year-old boy who was playing with a .22 caliber rifle he'd been given as a gift accidentally shot and killed his two-year-old sister in their Kentucky home, officials said.

The shooting happened on Tuesday in rural Cumberland county and the little girl was rushed to a hospital where she was pronounced dead, the state police said.

Cumberland County Coroner Gary White identified the girl as Caroline Starks and said the children's mother was cleaning the house at the time and had stepped outside onto the porch.

"She said no more than three minutes had went by and she actually heard the rifle go off. She ran back in and found the little girl," Mr White told WKYT news.

The rifle had been given to the boy last year and was kept in the corner of a room. The parents didn't realise a shell had been left in it.

"It's a Crickett," he told the Lexington Herald-Leader. "It's a little rifle for a kid...The little boy's used to shooting the little gun."

An autopsy was set to be conducted overnight, but Mr White said he expects the shooting will be ruled accidental.

"Just one of those crazy accidents," Mr White said.

This is a real tragedy caused by the American obsessions with firearms.
What was even more shocking, was the segment, where parents instruct rather very young children to shoot at targets.
I think at such a young age, it would be more appropriate to play with any sort of ball.
I really feel sorry for the boy and the parents, who acted in such negligent manner, although I can't see that any punishment of the parents would do any good.

Back to top

IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #39 - May 4^th, 2013 at 1:09am

Peter Freedman wrote on May 3^rd, 2013 at 9:11pm:

Chard, by "rishonest" (sic) you mean anyone who dares disagree with you.

A car manufacturer would be responsible only if the car had a safety fault that contributed to the accident. A car is not designed to kill, a gun is. Your argument is so old and totally absurd.

Bullshit. A tool is a tool. If you use that tool in an unsafe manner then it is your fault, not the goddamn manufacturer.

Also, way to be an immense douche by pointing out a typo.

Quote:

A gun should never be put in the hands of a child. Anyone who is a part of that appalling situation must share part of the guilt.

That's your opinion. The fact remains that had the parents of that five year old provided adequate supetvision the shooting would not have happened.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #40 - May 4^th, 2013 at 1:16am .
Back to top	image_009.jpg (61 KB \| 46 ) Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde IP Logged

Chard

Gold Member

Offline

Mein Führer! I can walk!

Posts: 1077
Alabama, USA
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #41 - May 4^th, 2013 at 2:08am

Demotivational Posters: For when you can't actually refute an argument, post a decade old meme!

Ok, lets look at the facts here. The mother of the children left a five-year old to "play" with an unsecured rifle while she cleaned the house. She also either failed to clear the rifle beforehand or she left unsecured ammunition where he son could find it. So right off the bat she commited the following errors,

1. She left an unsecured firearm where children could get access to it.

2. She knowingly allowed a five year old to "play" with an actual firearm.

3. She failed to either teach proper gun safety to that child despite living in a household with firearms in it.

4. She failed to properly clear the weapon and/or had unsecured ammo around the home.

Not a single bit of that is the fault of Cricket, the rifle's manufacturer. Now keep in mind that in the US there at tens of thousands of "youth" rifles purchased by parents to teach there children to shoot. If this is so dangerous then why am Iam not seeing more stories like the OP?

Oh, right, because Stephanie Sparks is an idiot who let a five year old "play" with a loaded firearm unsupervised while she was busy cleaning, her two year old died because of it, and you goulish f*ckwits are to busy screaming "guns are bad" to understand that had Stephanie Sparks not left a five year old alone with a gun that this incident wouldn't have happened.

Back to top

Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the FEAR to attack.

IP Logged

Peter Freedman Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5275 Wellington Gender:	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #42 - May 4^th, 2013 at 6:17am The same week a boy, aged eight, shot and killed his sister, aged five, in west Alaska.
Back to top	God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference. IP Logged

Peter Freedman

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 5275
Wellington
Gender: male

Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2
Reply #43 - May 4^th, 2013 at 6:26am

Chard wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 2:08am:

Demotivational Posters: For when you can't actually refute an argument, post a decade old meme!

Ok, lets look at the facts here. The mother of the children left a five-year old to "play" with an unsecured rifle while she cleaned the house. She also either failed to clear the rifle beforehand or she left unsecured ammunition where he son could find it. So right off the bat she commited the following errors,

1. She left an unsecured firearm where children could get access to it.

2. She knowingly allowed a five year old to "play" with an actual firearm.

3. She failed to either teach proper gun safety to that child despite living in a household with firearms in it.

4. She failed to properly clear the weapon and/or had unsecured ammo around the home.

Not a single bit of that is the fault of Cricket, the rifle's manufacturer. Now keep in mind that in the US there at tens of thousands of "youth" rifles purchased by parents to teach there children to shoot. If this is so dangerous then why am Iam not seeing more stories like the OP?

Oh, right, because Stephanie Sparks is an idiot who let a five year old "play" with a loaded firearm unsupervised while she was busy cleaning, her two year old died because of it, and you goulish f*ckwits are to busy screaming "guns are bad" to understand that had Stephanie Sparks not left a five year old alone with a gun that this incident wouldn't have happened.

Ok, Chard, let's see if I can get through to you. Unlikely, but there is always hope.

A gun is a weapon, not a toy. It has no place in the hands of a child barely out of nappies.

The parents were crazy to give a lethal weapon to a five-year-old. But some parents do stupid things. They could be prevented doing this stupid thing if the gun wasn't built, advertised and sold as suitable for children.

I guess the difference between us is that you think it is acceptable for a 5yo to have a gun as long as there is parental supervision. I don't.

Back to top

God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

IP Logged

KJT1981 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1822	Re: US boy, 5, accidentally shoots and kills sister, 2 Reply #44 - May 4^th, 2013 at 6:27am Peter Freedman wrote on May 4^th, 2013 at 6:17am: The same week a boy, aged eight, shot and killed his sister, aged five, in west Alaska. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/teen-sleepover-killer-walks/story-e6freuy9...
Back to top	IP Logged